To be honest I thought the penalty was a fair call.

Debatable, sure, but you can debate pretty much any scrum penalty because at any one time there are probably 6-7 different penalties you can call because the whole scrum is a mass of everyone cheating.

I read a number of former front rowers complaining about it, but to be honest they were the ones who used to cheat in the front row for a living and generally don't agree with any prop getting penalised!

Paddy Wallace starting at twelve for the final test having been flown out on Tuesday. Doesn't show a whole load of confidence in those who were already out there...

Think enough has already been said about the improved Irish performance but just to touch on the wheeled scrum I thought it was a harsh call to give a penalty against us, I didn't see the Ross movement but in fairness a lot of people who have played in the front row at international level have commented in the last couple of days that it looked like Nige got it wrong.

However that said, I thought the Liam Toland piece on Nigel Owens on Monday was bulls*%t personified.

A point the article fails to mention is that the pen count was 11-9 in our favour (how many times has that happened when we have lost over the last few years?). The opening 1/3 of his article highlights Owens making correct calls against us for our own stupid mistakes. 2/3 concentrates on a inconsistent approach by the ref at the breakdown. In fairness I agree the Mcfadden call was a little harsh for going off his feet but ultimately Toland admits he was off his feet, but then to say the All Blacks were infringing for the 12 phases leading up to their try is just pure BS - watch the game, to my amatuer eye the 12 rucks are all legimate. The final part of Toland's piece focuses on the scrum and ok it was debateable but are we really going to write a headline feature in a national paper every time we feel hard done by!?!

It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth, instead of focusing on one of the best performances we've seen in the last 5 years from our national team, Toland chooses to use his column inches to whinge about some 50/50 calls that didn't go our way. I look forward to seeing what is written about Poite this week!!

BTW connolly I think you're right as much as I love Cian I would say Katie Taylor had a better chance up against SBW.

www.rugbydump.com/2012/06/2644/all-black...-2nd-test-full-match

Link above there for the whole match if anyone has not seen the game.

www.rugbydump.com/2012/06/2644/all-black...-2nd-test-full-match

Link above there for the whole match if anyone has not seen the game.

Think enough has already been said about the improved Irish performance but just to touch on the wheeled scrum I thought it was a harsh call to give a penalty against us, I didn't see the Ross movement but in fairness a lot of people who have played in the front row at international level have commented in the last couple of days that it looked like Nige got it wrong.

However that said, I thought the Liam Toland piece on Nigel Owens on Monday was bullshit personified. link here www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0618/1224318139461.html

A point the article fails to mention is that the pen count was 11-9 in our favour (how many times has that happened when we have lost over the last few years?). The opening 1/3 of his article highlights Owens making correct calls against us for our own stupid mistakes. 2/3 concentrates on a inconsistent approach by the ref at the breakdown. In fairness I agree the Mcfadden call was a little harsh for going off his feet but ultimately Toland admits he was off his feet, but then to say the All Blacks were infringing for the 12 phases leading up to their try is just pure BS - watch the game, to my amatuer eye the 12 rucks are all legimate. The final part of Toland's piece focuses on the scrum and ok it was debateable but are we really going to write a headline feature in a national paper every time we feel hard done by!?!

It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth, instead of focusing on one of the best performances we've seen in the last 5 years from our national team, Toland chooses to use his column inches to whinge about some 50/50 calls that didn't go our way. I look forward to seeing what is written about Poite this week!!

BTW connolly I think you're right as much as I love Cian I would say Katie Taylor had a better chance up against SBW.

God no SBW would absolute kill the Cian

It was hard to lose it at the end, but a great game - and very encouraging from an Ireland point of view. Haven't seen them play with their tails up like that since we played Oz last year. Looking forward to the last test this weekend. Buskers it is again.

And while I usually hate on pitch handbags, I'd pay good money to see Cian Healy and Sonny Bill Williams go head to head..

Still gutted from this result!

Going by moans Owens got a call wrong, not reports.

Ross stepped back and then sideways. In order for a turnover to be awarded the TH should not move backwards. That's the difference between a scrum going through 90 and it being wheeled. Ross wheeled the scrum, penalty NZ

In the 6N Wales marched us back from the halfway line and our defence let them. Regardless of the penalty hoo ha, the issue today was we allowed NZ to do the same thing, the scrum moan is irrelevant, it was at the other end of the pitch.

I may have been premature in blaming Potty(still think he is liability to game tho).
Going by other reports owens appears to have gotten penalty call at scrum down other end wrong and should have been to us.
Might never get as good a chance again but fair play to management and players for turning what looked an impossible situation around.

Hats off to IMF, good call!

Didnt see game but obviously much better performance all round.

From what i can gather Mons. Potty grabbed some headlines again. Irb really will have to cut him loose.

i think gilroy is a better player as he has better defence but try stats say zebo is better this year

zebo 8trys in pro 12 and 4 in HCUP

gilroy 3 trys pro12 and 3 in HCUP

(Tiernan O'Halloran 5 TRYS PRO12 2 HCUP)

Heads with Rossie, heart with IMF. And not even a beer to console yourself with. Beans and sausages will have to do..

IMF, i agree with you on this weeks selection.
i had another look at your original post and its prob the so far out of his depth v try of the season part which i reacted to. There is a lot of anti deccie sentiment here and elsewhere(some well constructed and justified, some reactionary and over the top) and i find myself wanting to defend someone i have the utmost respect for as a rugby coach.As i said earlier he should have gone after world cup but rugby isnt as financially rewarding as wendyball so he may have made his decision for financial reasons.
In relation to selection i think the severity of the result last week has put the coaching team on the defensive and in that situation Cave probably should be on the bench.
I wish i shared your optimism on the scoreline because i think we are in for one hell of a rodgering without consent! I hope you are right.

www.rugbydump.com/

Link above there for "high"lights of the game or if you really don't like yourself they have a link for the whole game.

To be fair rossie you are being very one sided in your analysis of the Gilroy argument. My point was Zebo looked really out of his depth (as Diom says he wasn't the only one), we have another young winger in the squad who didn't have too bad a season himself, why not give him a run out on the bench for this one and you still have the 3rd test for Zebo to have another go at some point. I don't think that's being anti anything. All of the arguments you make for Zebo are equally valid for Gilroy in terms of his past year's work so makes it all the more puzzling why Kidney thinks he is good enough to bring but not good enough to give a run to. I know that there are fractions in these calls and Kidney, Kiss and Small will spend long and hard weighing up the options, I don't think for a second they pick a player because of the province he plays for. All I am doing is expressing an opinion with fairly limited information, for all we know Gilroy could have an injury.

I had a look at the IRFU site to find the live page they did of the Baabaa's game but i can't seem to find it. I am 99% certain that Loughney stayed at TH even after Fitzpatrick came back on. I have a feeling with the injuries to Ross and Healy going into tomorrow we will be in uncontested scrums by half time.

That said I don't think we will be beaten by 32+ points this time, still think we will be handed our ass but one thing you have to say about this Irish team they have a habbit of putting a performance together when you least expect it.

I agree Diom that they shouldnt pick themselves but the reality is that we have such a small playing pool it works out that way in many positions. The backrow, scrum half and wings are probable exceptions.
My anti munster comment wasnt directed at you Diom or anyone really other than the gilroy deserves it more than zebo vibe on the thread and zebo only there because hes munster and not deserving of it. He has put in some excellent shifts home and away this season and scored heaps of tries. If thats not worthy of a call up i dont know what is. By all media reports he was one of the better performers of the backs the last day aswell. i agree that a 6.5 rating is nothing to write home about but on your debut away against a rampant world champion all blacks team its not a bad start.
As to whether Gilroy deserves it he looks like a fine talent as does Tiernan here, D kearney and Andrew Conway at leinster. As i said at the start of this post wing is one of those positions where we have lots of competition.Its just a pity its not everywhere.