Borders no.2 wrote: Really in terms of entertainment its a poor value for money

Very much so

Really in terms of entertainment its a poor value for money ticket supporting Ireland. Do we get results? To some extent but we lost a lot of winnable big games that really mattered the last few years. England away 2014, Wales away 2015, Argentina WC 2015, France away 2016, Scotland away 2017.

Don't get me wrong we've had some big wins too and overall I think Joe Schmidt is definitely still in credit but its been painful viewing at times.

I thought we played ok on Saturday without tearing up any trees. We all remember France being the bane of our lives but the reality since about 2010 is that France are an average side and really even the games we drew with them or lost to them we should have won. A win over France is no longer a big deal and rightly so given how poor France have been. In terms of the bigger challenges ahead the back 3 is uninspiring no matter how you look at it. Zebo and Earls have their moments but even without my Connacht hat on Kearney's race is definitely long since run in my view.

Bazzo wrote:

dobby wrote: and i'm really sorry to bore people but Keith Earls reminds me of someone who is simply trying to beat his way out a paper bag, unsuccessfully

I'm a long way from the biggest Keith Earls fan in the world but he was far and away the best of our back 3(including Trimble) the other day.

Sadly representative. But true. Earls is total muck,( beat my head forward, beat it again, adds nothing but is better than Trimble who struggles to get a place in Ulster and Kearney who can't get a place in Leinster. It is utterly shocking. Hence the silence at the Aviva

Would 100% agree on Earls, did not rate him against tier one teams before this weekend but he grew into the game and made impactful decisions. He's not going to be the most physical player but a year or two ago he would have injured himself tackling that prop rather than actually having a positive effect for Ireland.

As for whether rugby is entertainment or results orientated, unfortunately dobby it has to be both, and the national team leans towards the results. Lam was able to say that he wanted entertaining rugby because no one expected results anyways, but at national level Joe needs to deliver the goods. Crowd definitely sounded subdued (or worse) on tv but that's often been the case at the Aviva, will take the English visit to really get people hopping.

dobby wrote: and i'm really sorry to bore people but Keith Earls reminds me of someone who is simply trying to beat his way out a paper bag, unsuccessfully

I'm a long way from the biggest Keith Earls fan in the world but he was far and away the best of our back 3(including Trimble) the other day.

and i'm really sorry to bore people but Keith Earls reminds me of someone who is simply trying to beat his way out a paper bag, unsuccessfully

phatguerilla wrote: Much like a few weeks ago after Dragons, isn't it great to be able to turn our noses up at a 10 point win against France? Not saying any of the criticism isn't valid because a lot of it is 100%, but considering pre-Joe beating France, even at home, was the least likely result in our six nations calendar, we've come a long way.

Some time ago Pat Lam said that we are in the entertainment business. It is very clear Joe is in the results business. If you are in the Aviva stadium its a hard watch. But you do get the results. But do people go for a day out in the Aviva to be entertained or to win. I think back to the Scottish game in Murrayfield. I actually felt so good for them. They have not a break in so long. But it was entertaining. And I harp back to Pat Lam. Why do people go to a rugby game? Its a day out. Its banter with the opposing fans. Its an ENTERTAINING game. We win, we lose, bottom line it is a game, it is not life critical. So Pat Lam is absolutely right. We won the Pro12 last year (I still rewatch the game) but its just a game. The people in the Aviva pay to be entertained not to be bored. So Joe you do not rate, no matter your results. My opinion.

Much like a few weeks ago after Dragons, isn't it great to be able to turn our noses up at a 10 point win against France? Not saying any of the criticism isn't valid because a lot of it is 100%, but considering pre-Joe beating France, even at home, was the least likely result in our six nations calendar, we've come a long way.

Newname wrote: /quote[ In future, should a new coach be signed, if he is a teacher in the past I will object, purely on the basis it is so exact it is painful. Not to say that object I with the results, but the atmosphere in the Aviva was simply so dead. There was not of much to cheer other than the result

I might be wrong but wasn't Pat Lam a teacher?
Would love to see Tiernan playing with Ireland . . but God I'm fed up of the whinging, we are nearly sounding like some of the Munster supporters who are just perpetually whinging over perceived wrongs. Enough already!
By the way in my opinion it was a fantastic win against France, our commitment and intensity was fantastic - what exactly did you want against a very much improving French team.[/quote]
perpetual whinging done . as you say it was a strategically well thought out win. As a supporter, the result is there is there to be seen. As a fan it was hard to watch. It was just a result and we got it. Just wonder if there can be a balance where we play exciting rugby and win. The Aviva was dead, the game was dead. Joe did what was required

/quote[ In future, should a new coach be signed, if he is a teacher in the past I will object, purely on the basis it is so exact it is painful. Not to say that object I with the results, but the atmosphere in the Aviva was simply so dead. There was not of much to cheer other than the result[/quote]
I might be wrong but wasn't Pat Lam a teacher?
Would love to see Tiernan playing with Ireland . . but God I'm fed up of the whinging, we are nearly sounding like some of the Munster supporters who are just perpetually whinging over perceived wrongs. Enough already!
By the way in my opinion it was a fantastic win against France, our commitment and intensity was fantastic - what exactly did you want against a very much improving French team.

Tiernan must be sick knowing that Joe will pick a semi- fit payne over him. Personally I think it comes down to a game-plan. When Kearney did get replaced it started to look a bit interesting. That is not to say Zebo did much, but it wasn't hard to out-manoeuvre Kearney's antics (note here, I thought the Lanigans Ball comment deserved at least one like ). And it seems to be Joe does not want to see his back three doing anything other than defending. Game in, game out, against any decent opposition. I think it was very obvious in the Aviva. There was no atmosphere. Other than when Ringrose strutted his stuff. In future, should a new coach be signed, if he is a teacher in the past I will object, purely on the basis it is so exact it is painful. Not to say that object I with the results, but the atmosphere in the Aviva was simply so dead. There was not of much to cheer other than the result

connachta wrote:

Mark Mostyn wrote: www.the42.ie/jared-payne-joe-schmidt-ire...les-3260664-Feb2017/

Nice to see Joe at least mention Buckley

With munster back to the business, I'm affraid Killer/Cronin will be chosen as 3RD Choice, and poor Denis finishing his career as "mentionned" and "probably the best uncapped LH in the world"

Considering McGrath is pretty much guaranteed to go on the Lions tour this summer, it would be a farce if he doesn't go to Japan

Mark Mostyn wrote: www.the42.ie/jared-payne-joe-schmidt-ire...les-3260664-Feb2017/

Nice to see Joe at least mention Buckley

With munster back to the business, I'm affraid Killer/Cronin will be chosen as 3RD Choice, and poor Denis finishing his career as "mentionned" and "probably the best uncapped LH in the world"

www.the42.ie/jared-payne-joe-schmidt-ire...les-3260664-Feb2017/

Nice to see Joe at least mention Buckley

wp_rathead wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote: Most annoying is the repeated reasons for his inclusion and Tiernan's purported lack of defensive skills. Kearney (and Zebo) were sold down the river on numerous occasions today. Absolute joke!

I hope he has a receipt for that dummy he bought from Serin

Reminded me of the lyrics to Lanigan's Ball
'I stepped in and he stepped out again,
He stepped in and I stepped out again'

TOH might have a chance if Payne was at 13 but I think Schmidt is already taking a chance with Ringrose there and possibly can't afford or doesn't believe he can afford another 'flair player' in the backs, the fact that he picked an incredibly rusty Bowe would also point to this. I do worry about Ringrose at 13 against Wales and England, Henshaw spent a full season as an apprentice within the Ireland camp despite being more developed physically and having far more rugby under his belt. Ringrose is being played as there doesn't seem to be any other real option but I think Joe would pick Bundee in a heartbeat if he could.