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Ref experience stats

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14 years 1 month ago #5648 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
It's week 16 and with everyone watching the 6N the Pro 12 have decided to flood this weeks matches with a load of inexperienced refs, almost everyone drops a bit with their averages.

Connacht v Edinburgh: Carlo Damasco (FIR, 17th competition game)

Aironi v Dragons: Leo Colgan (IRFU, 6th competition game)
Glasgow v Leinster: John Lacey (IRFU, 18th competition game)
Ulster v Ospreys: Neil Henessey (WRU, 9th competition game)
Munster v Blues: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 13th competition game)
Scarlets v Treviso: Stefano Penne (FIR, 9th competition game)
TeamAverage ref experience (in games)Experience change this weekPosition change this week
1.Munster29-1-
2.Scarlets26-1+1
3.Ospreys25-2-1
4.Blues25-1-
5.Ulster24-1-
6.Leinster24--
7.Glasgow22-+1
8.Edinburgh21-1-1
9.Dragons18-1-
10.Treviso16-1-
11.Connacht15--
12.Aironi12-1-

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14 years 2 months ago #5516 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
We're off the bottom of the table, yay!

Not much to report, things are averaging out now and there's little movement. All except for Scarlets, who got Nigel Owens twice in the last two weeks, so they've made a massive jump.

Below is a table showing the average ref experience for each team so far this season

Week 15
TeamAverage ref experience (in games)Experience change this weekPosition change this week
1.Munster30-2-
2.Ospreys27-3-
3.Scarlets27+8+5
4.Blues26+1-1
5.Ulster25+1-
6.Leinster24+3-
7.Edinburgh22-2-3
8.Glasgow22+6+2
9.Dragons19-1-2
10.Treviso17-1-1
11.Connacht15+2+1
12.Aironi13--1

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14 years 3 months ago #4850 by swift4prez
Replied by swift4prez on topic Re: Ref experience stats
keep up the good work.
ref for friday is nigel owens. quinns fans bit worried he has a thing against them as he was the man in the middle when 'blood gate' happened vs leinster

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14 years 3 months ago #4622 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Sorry about the lack of updates, the christmas hols kept me away from my spreadsheet :)

Lots of movement in the table, with everybody except Edinburgh and (surprise surprise) us increasing our averages.

Munster and Ospreys, already well ahead two weeks ago have managed not just maintain their lead, but have also managed the greatest jumps. Is that a surprise? Sigh.

Glasgow have moved off the bottom which, yet more surprise surprise, us firmly in last place.

Top stat: In week one the average ref experience was 11 games, last week the average was 35, but we still didn't manage to so much as dent our own average.

I hope the Connacht Branch are paying attention to this unfair attitude between the big names and everyone else.

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14 years 3 months ago #3911 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Possibly, but it's also about 'the brand' (tm).

The best teams are televised, and the more experienced refs are given the televised matches to ensure a high level is seen.

This means if you're a fan of a team that's not televised too often (us, Glasgow...) then tough.

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14 years 3 months ago #3910 by salmson
Replied by salmson on topic Re: Ref experience stats
I can kind of see a twisted rationale behind this. In a Premiership or Top 14 scenario the effects of relegation are more deleterious than the effects of winning the league are positive; therefore the lower echelon teams have to get decent refs too. You could argue that the 2 most important matches in England last year were Leeds vs. Newcastle and the reverse fixture.

In the Pro 12 it's all about the teams with a chance of making the top 4, so this unfair allocation of referees is allowed to continue.

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14 years 3 months ago #3909 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Aironi are very badly treated. It's only thanks to their games against Munster (ref had 44 games experience) and Edinburgh (45) that they aren't in single figures. Outside of those two games their refs are averaging 8 games experience, which is unforgivable.

It doesn't help Aironi that they get a fair number of Italian refs, who naturally haven't had much Pro12 experience yet. So that will increase in time, I imagine.

As for Glasgow, who knows. But they're bucking the trend and riding high in the table, the rest of the table mirrors the standings quite well (ish).

Right now if you subscribe to the idea that all refs are unbiased and can be trusted to do their jobs regardless of who is playing, then picking refs out of the hat would seem to be the best bet. This is clearly not happening.

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14 years 3 months ago #3908 by salmson
Replied by salmson on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Umm: I can see a very obvious pattern of bias against Connaacht and the Italian teams. But do you have any idea why Glasgow are fairing so much worse than Edinburgh?

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14 years 3 months ago - 14 years 3 months ago #3907 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
We are at the halfway stage. 11th game.

Munster v Connacht: Dudley Philips (IRFU, 21st competition game)


Scarlets v Ospreys: Nigel Owens (71st competition game)
Leinster v Ulster: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 35th competition game)
Edinburgh v Glasgow: Neil Paterson (SRU, 36th competition game)
Blues v Dragons: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 11th competition game)
Aironi v Treviso: Carlo Damasco (FIR, 15th competition game)


See the table at the top for the movers and shakers. Major bump for Ospreys and Scarlets thanks to Nigel Owens' experience. Glasgow sneaking up on us, we could end up bottom if this continues. This question is, what are Connacht Rugby going to do about it?

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Last edit: 14 years 3 months ago by ummm,.

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14 years 4 months ago - 14 years 4 months ago #3242 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Here we are, week 10 and the favouritism is starting to show, once more Connacht getting the least experienced ref of the week...

Connacht v Treviso: Neil Hennessy (WRU, 6th competition game)

Dragons v Glasgow: David Wilkinson (IRFU, 12th competition game)
Ospreys v Munster: Peter Allan (SRU, 46th competition game)
Leinster v Blues: Andrew Macpherson (SRU, 40th competition game)
Edinburgh V Aironi: John Lacey (IRFU, 16th competition game)
Ulster v Scarlets: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 47th competition game)


Munster v Ospreys, home and away have had refs with a combined 99 games under their belts.

All but one of Connachts home matches have had refs with less than ten games experience, compared to Munster having a single home game with a ref with less than 35 games experience.

The average experience in the league is 18 games. Scarlets, Aironi, Treviso, Connacht and Glasgow are all below this average.

As ever, the table at the top has been update.

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Last edit: 14 years 4 months ago by ummm,.

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14 years 4 months ago - 14 years 4 months ago #3019 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Back to the Pro12 grindstone, which means the ever vigilant clan are on a ref hunt!

Connacht v Ospreys: AndrewMcMenemy (SRU, 9th competition game)

Edinburgh v Munster: Neil Paterson (SRU, 35th competition game)
Teviso v Leinster: George Clancy (IRFU, 42nd competition game)
Scarlets v Dragons: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 10th competition game)
Glasgow v Ulster: Stefano Penne (FIR, 7th competition game)
Blues v Aironi: Leo Colgan (IRFU, 4th competition game)


Check the table in the first post for the latest standings.

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Last edit: 14 years 4 months ago by ummm,.
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14 years 5 months ago #2132 by sea_point
Replied by sea_point on topic Re: Ref experience stats

That is a good idea to be fair. I think refs getting experience outside of their locality is a great way to normalise the reffing around the world.


Good for the clubs too, non French refs taking some Top14 games pre HEC gets the players prepared mentally for the differing interpretations...

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14 years 5 months ago #2131 by Diom
Replied by Diom on topic Re: Ref experience stats
That is a good idea to be fair. I think refs getting experience outside of their locality is a great way to normalise the reffing around the world.

A Connacht is not just for the Xmas Inter-Pros...
A Connacht is for Life

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14 years 5 months ago #2130 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
This weeks refs are out:

Ospreys V Scarlets:  (FFR, 1st competition game)
Treviso V Edinburgh: Andy Macpherson (SRU, 39th competition game)
Aironi V Glasgow: Dudley Phillips (IRFU,20th competition game)
Ulster V Connacht: John Lacey (IRFU, 14th competition game)
Dragons V Blues: Nigel Owens (WRU, 76th competition game)
Leinster V Munster: Pascal Gauzere (FFR, 3rd competition game)

Blues and Dragons make a hooj leap on the back of Nigel Owens and his experience.

Leinster and Munster suffer in the table, but they're getting a French ref with HEC and international experience. Same for Ospreys and Scarlets. Damn you RaboDirect and your parachuting in experienced refs that screw up my stats!

I think this is an ERC initiative to get HEC refs to do matches on foreign soil before HEC games to settle them in, there isn't a single French ref in charge of a Top 14 match this weekend.


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14 years 5 months ago #1915 by Diom
Replied by Diom on topic Re: Ref experience stats
Good man Ummm... no doubt the Pro12 lads heard that you were keeping track and knew that they were BUSTED. Ummm for Presidential Aide to Swift.

A Connacht is not just for the Xmas Inter-Pros...
A Connacht is for Life

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14 years 5 months ago #1913 by ummm,
Replied by ummm, on topic Re: Ref experience stats
And we're back. Moving steadily up the table, as are Aironi. No prizes for guessing Aironi are playing Munster this week...  O:-)

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