AFAIK its a 16 team league designed to fill the gap that being out of Heineken cup for next 3 years creates. What happens after that is anyone's guess but I would imagine that men like wray and Craig want to be playing the toulons, Toulouse and even the Munsters and Leinster( if not damaged by this) after that.

Thats all the prl need the regions for. From regions perspective they just want to retain their independence fro wru. This is a fallacy as they receive 6.6 m a season in direct funding but they don't recognise this as a subsidy but somehow as a god given right .

The a viva premiership is completely separate to the English rugby championship. Only the teams like Leeds, Bristol etc who have spent quality time in a viva get a vote.

rossie wrote: After a quiet few days this is back in the headlines today as the 31/12 deadline for RRW draws closer.

Its been leaked today( I think) that PRL and BT have invited the 4 welsh regions to join an expanded ( to 16) premiership. They are being offered 4m each pa to join with a guarantee of min 3 teams in premiership for a period of 3 years. I'm not sure how long they are guaranteed the 4m for.
The guarantee of 3 places is interesting as it goes against everything the premiership is billed by prl as standing for. Effectively it will work as follows. Cardiff blues get relegated in year 1 leaving 3 welsh teams in premiership. In year 2 dragons finish bottom and Cardiff fail to get promoted then lowest finishing English team is relegated instead of dragons. I wonder if prl shareholders have voted on this yet?
This requires wru and RFU sanction to go ahead but its the end of pro12 if it does. Italians are also considering their position as their participation is costing them a fortune. Aironi/ zebre have been a total failure and Treviso participation has cost Benetton 20m to date.

It's not as simple as the PRL and WRR would like to have everyone believe, if they think that the Championship Clubs, the likes of Bristol, Leeds, London Welsh/Scottish, Rotherham, Cornish Pirates and whoever gets relegated this season from the Aviva are going to roll over and have their bellies tickled by while four welsh regions are shoehorned into a new League then they're bonkers.

The other issue of course is if they strategize to expand the League further from the existing twelve to sixteen, then add in the say another four as a sop Championship sides and you have a twenty team league.

Even if you split the league into Conferences you will still end up with a lesser quality product because at the end of the day even if BT do pump more money in, that money will gravitate to the bigger clubs anyway and the smaller sides will struggle but you'll have more of them. And what are they going to do about promotion/relegation too..??

I have no doubt at all the WRU will go straight back to the Welsh Premiership clubs that the Regions were morphed out of to fill the gaps in the Pro 12 if the regions go it alone and they will be more successful as they have long history on their side. The Regions are buggered if they do jump because they are just swapping one lot of money for another, and ceding power to the PRL to boot and you'll have their players jumping ship too if the WRU block their eligibility for Wales....

Galway gas is correct re welsh. Problem is that contract is with wru not rrw. We have seen with aironi and zebre the problems.s that arise with creating teams out of thin air.

Italians agreement is up at end of season. They currently pay the Celtic unions 3m a season to participate. They obviously don't want to pay that anymore. I'd say they will wait and see what happens with welsh before making a decision.

IMO the best thing for league is to return to 10 team format. That means keeping welsh and losing Italians. If it goes the other way the league is finished IMO.

columoc wrote: is the WRU not contracted to the Pro12 for another 2 yaers. Ditto the Italians. If so, unless they back the prl move (a complete U turn) then the WRU are obliged to enter teams for next two years, thus by deduction funding for current regions must end

The WRU is contracted to provide 4 teams for 2 more years. Not sure about Italians. The creation of three new regions if the current four break away and the introduction of central contracts are to be discussed at an WRU meeting on January 2nd. I'm assuming the fourth welsh club would be RGC1404 based in Colwyn Bay.

Thanks Rossie, always amzes me how you get this stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, is the WRU not contracted to the Pro12 for another 2 yaers. Ditto the Italians. If so, unless they back the prl move (a complete U turn) then the WRU are obliged to enter teams for next two years, thus by deduction funding for current regions must end.

Secondly, is it just the prl Premiership that vote. I'm sure clubs like London Welsh, Bristol etc woulod see this as a virtual condemnation to Div 2, and would thus be unlikley to support. Do they have as vote?

After a quiet few days this is back in the headlines today as the 31/12 deadline for RRW draws closer.

Its been leaked today( I think) that PRL and BT have invited the 4 welsh regions to join an expanded ( to 16) premiership. They are being offered 4m each pa to join with a guarantee of min 3 teams in premiership for a period of 3 years. I'm not sure how long they are guaranteed the 4m for.
The guarantee of 3 places is interesting as it goes against everything the premiership is billed by prl as standing for. Effectively it will work as follows. Cardiff blues get relegated in year 1 leaving 3 welsh teams in premiership. In year 2 dragons finish bottom and Cardiff fail to get promoted then lowest finishing English team is relegated instead of dragons. I wonder if prl shareholders have voted on this yet?
This requires wru and RFU sanction to go ahead but its the end of pro12 if it does. Italians are also considering their position as their participation is costing them a fortune. Aironi/ zebre have been a total failure and Treviso participation has cost Benetton 20m to date.

In fairness Rossie I wouldnt be too bothered about what SJ says,hes a washed up has been and relies on trolling to keep his readership up.

Hes not respected anywhere and very few people with a basic knowledge of whats going on will even read him.

Yep. The Italians are talking about pulling out of pro12 now. There is an article by an Italian rugby jour no translated and posted on munsterfans thread on this. Post 7786 I think it is.

Amazing how Leinster won the Pro12 with their B team! This is a well refuted line.

But to add a little bit more intrigue to the whole affair, apparently BT Sport want to sponsor all the Irish clubs and Welsh regions, as well as the Scots. While attractive, the clubs must be careful not to put all their eggs in one basket. But with SKY broadcasting and BT sponsoring, it seems starnge that there is still a English/Welsh league proposal. www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/bt-sport-...ship-talks-1.1635906

Honestly, I do not think anyone has a plan...it seems that they are making it up as they go along. Only the IRFU seem to be consistent?

Anyone se scrum5 last night on bbc2w? Afaik its up on the player/website now.
Stephen Jones, jounalist for the times,was talking about the welsh row.
He stated that he wanted to see an elite european tournament where the best teams didnt have to travel to connacht or zebre(with respect!). He went on to say that he wanted a proper qualification system from the pro12 where the irish couldnt just roll out their 1st team for the hec and rest them for a month.

WRU and Warren Garland met with the supporters clubs of the regions on Monday evening. Roger Lewis ,CEO, and Pickering. Chairman, represented wru . The ospreys supporters today posted the minutes. I can't find them in full but there are samples everywhere including a piece on BBC sport Wales website.
This refers to a meeting held between roger lewis and mark mcclafferty in 2012 in Dublin and prior to any TV contracts being signed by anyone. The topic of the meeting was the possibility of a British and Irish league. Lewis claims that mcclafferty dismissed the idea as a non runner immediately.
Another piece from meeting doing rounds is from gatland. He told supporters that ospreys hadn't made an offer to Adam Jones. He also stated that he actively encourages his players to stay at regions and was disappointed that many of them hadn't taken his advice. He stated that reasons given to him by players for moving were poor set ups and player welfare at the regions. He also questioned the commitment of some of his players to their regions, citing that he would like to pick the team based on performance he for their regions but some players regularly played for the regions at an intensity below the standard required. It meant that higher emphasise was put on the intensity of the welsh squad sessions to get them up to speed.

Lewis also implied that RRW may have done themselves more harm than good by leaking confidential information in relation to value of TV contracts.
It seems to have been an honest and open exchange which can't have done the WRU position any harm.

Its a complicated system that pRL operates though salmon. There are 3 types of shares in PRL. Only one type can be sold. Soo they probably have some shares left.

rossie wrote: Just for clarification the English clubs that have spent time in the premiership own shares in it so not all championship clubs will have a vote just the ones with shares in prl.

And not even all those.

www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/19785431

Cos hey, shares can be traded as well as earned.

Thanks for all the updates Rossie

And just when I'm finished all that I see that the PRL have fined Northampton 70k for releasing George north for Wales 4th autumn international this November . I'm not sure which side in the row this helps more.

Just for clarification the English clubs that have spent time in the premiership own shares in it so not all championship clubs will have a vote just the ones with shares in prl.