It looks the like the details of the new "Not The Heineken Cup" (sponsored by Heineken) will be emerging shortly.

How Europe will look:

• European Cup made up of 20 teams: six from the Premiership and Top 14 and seven from the Pro 12, including the top team from each of the four countries involved. The final place to be decided by a play-off. The tournament winner will not automatically qualify.

• Challenge Cup made up of 20 teams, two of which would come from outside the three leagues compared to the current six. A third tournament made up of teams from tier two nations with the format to be decided.

• The proceeds would be divided equally between the three leagues with merit money from the quarter-finals onwards.

• The tournaments will be run by the Six Nations committee with the three leagues running the commercial arm. There will still be a board and chief executive, but the role of chairman will change with an independent brought in from the business world to help resolve split votes.

• Tournament headquarters likely to be moved from Dublin.

• The name of the tournament still has to be agreed, together with whether there should be a title sponsor.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/17/ru...eement-reached-paris

Salmson- if you know and have time could you explain the uefa system of governance to me as its being bandied as the solution by FFR and LNR alike. Thks

Sol_ie wrote: the Guardian (oh, it's so impartial!) had reported it was going to be one competition of 20 (12 pro12, 6 French, 2 others).

That's correct. As Rossie points out, the marketability of same is questionable.

On the Welsh regions threatening court action, the precedent mentioned is where the Welsh FA tried to make Newport Town football club leave the English leagues and play in the Welsh league. The Welsh FA lost because Newport Town were deemed a special case as they had played in the English league system for decades. There is no guarantee, or indeed likelihood, that the Welsh regions would be successful as they, or the Welsh club teams, cannot point to any such tenure.

The rights of national unions/sporting organisations are strongly supported in European law. Indeed the TV agreements signed by PRL, ERC, UEFA and so on effectively amount to separate, competing clubs/businesses acting as a cartel. The right to behave in such an anti-competitive manner has been upheld in the case of sporting organisations due to their cultural importance, which overrode normal business/anti-cartel rules.

All-in-all this probably amounts to one last roll of the dice by PRL. When this fails they'll (a) stay out for 3 years or (b) come crawling back, depending on whether or how watertight the BT Sport deal is.

Some good stuff over there rossie, thanks for the link up. The only thing is would the IRB sanction it as a new cross boarder competition, and would the WRU be entitled to tell the regions to go take a jump? Either way you're going to have problems between the WRU and the provinces.

I do think that two competitions with 16 teams approach is the way to go, but the Guardian (oh, it's so impartial!) had reported it was going to be one competition of 20 (12 pro12, 6 French, 2 others).

If welsh regions are in and English out and its by no means certain that welsh regions are in then the format agreed in principle last month simply must be adjusted to 16 teams with 8 French and 8 pro 12 and 16 team amlin made up of 6 french , 4 pro12 and 6 others for the following reasons.
1. Marketability and integrity of comp. Its supposed to be a top club/region competition.
2. Inclusiveness. All teams in France, pro12 and elsewhere must be accomadated so amlin must go ahead. If it doesn't then we run risk of those teams entering RCC.

Paul Rees tweeted last night that RRW were preparing for court battle with WRU for restraint of trade if they block move to premiership. He cites case law from Newport county fc v FAW from the 90s as precedent. Our contributors over on Munsterfans who also happen to be solicitors have dissected this and raised some other case law supporting WRU. Very interesting read. Lot of info there so start around page 207/08

Before we run away with ourselves or panic about how the mighty Welsh sh1t themselves next...

McCafferty reckons the HEC is going ahead even if English clubs stay out - he reckons LNR will say we're not playing, FFR will say 6 of you are, discussion over. He's basically saying Gozes (who is about tyo leave office) is blustering and the French are 100% back in. However I see where they're going this evening: at this stage PRL are so screwed they might as well raise one more time.

The Grauniad, ever the motherlode of PRL plans/fantasies, reckons that since the regions are tied in, PRL may invite 3 Welsh clubs to join the Premiership and one to join the Championship. You read that right, they are now looking to semi-pro outfits in the Valleys (that pulled in max 4000-5000 in the good old days) to make up the numbers.

Unfortunately if PRL stay out, 2 HEC groups will have 3 Rabo teams and 2 will have makeweights. Real shame.

PRL clubs today voted against returning to the Heineken cup. They have decided to go it alone and are now exploring alternatives. These, according to press release, are expanding premiership to 14/16 teams or competition against the non super15 SA provinces.

You got a love the timing of their press releases. All done on eve of significant ERC dates. I guess we can all wait til mid January for the next significant PRL statement

Having said that Simon Thomas, respected welsh rugby journo, has tweeted tonight that he has been advised by a source at heart of welsh rugby not to take any time off for next few weeks. Are RRW about to rebel and leave WRU?

rossie wrote:

salmson wrote:
The big question is where would it leave the pro12?

Two leagues, Premiership and a Euro league. no HEC ?

salmson wrote: This is still getting stranger, Mark McCafferkey saying they'll need to think about where they go next, and that realistically the French have agreed to 2 more years in the HEC as nobody's going to try to bring major changes in during a World Cup season. Pretty conciliatory all told.

Meanwhile Nigel Wray is urging the English clubs to stay out and expand the Premiership to include the Welsh clubs (which has never been on the cards).

Are Sarries backers about to pull the plug I wonder.

Wray is getting huge support from within Wales for this move. RRW fans and welsh rugby media are right behind this move. They believe that they can survive without the wru with this and that it will swing the balance of power back in their favour.
AFAIK it can't happen for 2 more seasons though as they are signed up to the pro12 until then.

I have some sympathy for the regions. They were privately funded by benefactors because WRU were broke. The benefactors pumpedmillions into them for little or no return and now that WRU are back on their feet they aaren't doing the decent thing and instead are trying to starve them out. There is no predicting how it will turn out as the regions are stubborn and capable of rebelling.
Whether RFU would permit entry to Aviva or could stop it is another matter.

The big question is where would it leave the pro12?

connachtexile wrote: Tis rubbish they might make an offer but it would never be sold. It's them grasping at straws.

Unfortunately its not rubbish. It shows the threat these guys actually are to the game of rugby union. Nothing is sacred to them and in their opinion everything can be bought and/or changed to suit them.

If they can't buy they will try to destroy. That's their agenda.

This is still getting stranger, Mark McCafferkey saying they'll need to think about where they go next, and that realistically the French have agreed to 2 more years in the HEC as nobody's going to try to bring major changes in during a World Cup season. Pretty conciliatory all told.

Meanwhile Nigel Wray is urging the English clubs to stay out and expand the Premiership to include the Welsh clubs (which has never been on the cards).

Are Sarries backers about to pull the plug I wonder.

Tis rubbish they might make an offer but it would never be sold. It's them grasping at straws.

Did anyone see post no 5911 on this thread over on munsterfans?

Its an exert from a Paul ackford article in the times today. Aparantly some of the PRL board are seriously talking about buying the rights for rugby union including English team from the RFU.

I think it's fairly clear that the FFR have now pushed the LNR into throwing its lot in with the ERC competition, and any changes that are to be made are going to be under that umbrella.

Good stuff, still more to be sorted out but all moving in the right direction.

I think it means that it is a one year extension but they want a compromise on governance. It's borrowed time but it has LNR back at the negotiation table

From French sources: The second paragraph notes the end of the RCC while the closing sentence concludes "Participation of French clubs in the H-Cup is therefore maintained and the season 2015-16 will mark the start of a new ERC competition":

Réunis jeudi à Orly à l’initiative de la Ligue nationale (LNR), les présidents de clubs du Top 14 et de Pro D2 ont validé à l’unanimité le nouveau format des compétitions européennes. Qui prendra effet en 2015.

Tout ça pour ça. C’est en résumé ce qu’il ressort de la réunion des présidents de clubs du Top 14 et de Pro D2, réunis jeudi à Orly par la Ligue nationale de rugby (LNR), pour discuter de l’avenir des compétitions européennes. Alors que l’ERC, l’instance dirigeante du rugby continental, avait proposé en octobre un projet proche de celui demandé par les clubs français et anglais, désireux de bénéficier de retombées financières plus conséquentes, l’ensemble des protagonistes de cette réunion ont exprimé leur accord avec le nouveau format des compétitions et les principes de répartition financière. Cette décision met ainsi momentanément fin au projet de création de la Rugby Champions Cup (RCC), souhaitée dans un premier temps par les fédérations anglaise et française.

Face à l’importance des travaux pour parvenir à la mise en place de la nouvelle structure - trois tournois sont notamment prévus -, la Ligue envisage toutefois un principe de transition d’une saison, permettant aux clubs d’accompagner les modifications de compétitions. La participation des clubs français à la prochaine saison de H Cup est donc maintenue, alors que l’exercice 2015-2016 devrait marquer le vrai départ du nouveau projet de l’ERC.