Its definitely grandstanding, because I think most of the individuals involved know how silly these claims are. There was a good discussion on the topic on rte at the weekend, balls.ie have it up there too. Basically the IRB have to agree to any new competition as do the Unions I believe. If any of those groups say no then the Premiership is basically threatening to pull the nuclear option and set up some sort of rival entity. This has happened in rugby before of course but not while it has been professional afaik and would be a huge undertaking. It would also potentially split the clubs as I doubt all of them agree that they want to stick it to the RFU. Plus it would put all English players in a very tight spot, the RFU could potentially threaten not to play any of them for the international team if they agreed to the change, or just make it incredibly messy anyways to be playing two separate parallel versions of Rugby Union. Its some mess.

rossie wrote: He goes on to say that the unions and irb can't stop him because the BT deal and LNRs pending deal changes the rugby landscape forever so no one can stop them.

Jesus. I mean, we all know something has to change, but come on. Yer man sounds like he's living on a different planet.Any threat to the 6N will be dealt with by the IRB, RFU, FFR etc. Not a hope it'll get a modicum of support if any 6N game is in the firing line.

Part of me wonders if this is grandstanding: they're throwing out these mad ideas so that when a sensible compromise is reached they can say how reasonable they were in climbing down off their high horse.

PRL CEO Mark Mcclafferty today says that PRL are considering moving the premiership final to February to give their "new competition" the opportunity to run from march to end of may. This apparently is to accom the south africans who he says will be participating in 2015-16. It won't be a European cup apparently but a " transborder cup".

I think this fella fancies himself as a standup comedian. These brings them directly into conflict with RFU and 6ns as well as irb. He's like a kid in the playground who gets in with the cool kid so cuts off all his other friends to keep the new one sweet.

He goes on to say that the unions and irb can't stop him because the BT deal and LNRs pending deal changes the rugby landscape forever so no one can stop them.

IMO after this statement IRB have no choice but to step in and end this now. He has indicated an intention to squeeze the 6ns slot on the calender. What's next. In addition there is no room in his calender for the autumn internationals as he would require every weekend from 1st of September to 6ns to achieve his goal. The French would have to start the 1st weekend of august. This raises serious player welfare issues.
Change is needed to the format no doubt but this nonsense has to be stopped.

don't think financially they could go ahead without one of the other 4 nations jumping ship,many of the premiership clubs are in seriuous debt. Also the semi-final with toulon v Saracens this year they only sold 20,000 tickets so if that's any indicator then I can't see it being a success

I'm very confident that this will go ahead - as a new Heineken Cup format. This proposal has no support from any of the 6 Unions, the ERC, the IRB or any teams outside England & France - but that should be no comfort to any one.

If there is no compromise then there will be a breakaway. The Unions and the IRB will then issue edicts saying "this new tournament is unsanctioned - and these games are unauthorised etc." Then the Clubs will go to Court for a restraint of trade (as in Kerry Packer in cricket and the Premier League in soccer) and they will win. no question.

The English and French clubs gave two years notice - but no one taking them seriously. These clubs are big professional companies with real proper clever lawyers and shareholders and everything - don't think they're sports clubs with any sense of history, duty, responsibility or fairness.

The IRFU and the other Unions should be fighting to get the best deal they can - and accept that this is the last year of this European Cup format.

Oh yeah.... I reckon that BT Sport will be showing all the English clubs' home European games next year. BT Sport, another oxymoron. A telephone company with no interest in sport - and will pull out of the UK market in three or four years like ITV Digital, Setanta and ESPN before them.

rossie wrote: Also you couldn't be more wrong. The Anglo French project requires Leinster, Munster and ulster to give its claim to be a competition for Europe's finest legitimacy. They could take or leave the rest.
In addition ROger lewis, CEO of wru, has ruled out any approach to premiership. The prl have also said that any application would have to be to the lower leagues. They regions are already losing money.
Compromise is required on money split, comp control and comp format in that order if we are to either keep them in the competition or convince irb of their true motive and get them to step in.

I hope you are right. But with the money involved, all gloves could come off. Of course Lewis will say what he has said, but he has to be working on Plan B in background, it would be remiss if he did not. Ditto for SRU and IRFU. I think your point on the prl saying they would have to apply through lower leagues is a very valid one. The owners won't want to dilute the pot further and it won't be getting mch bigger than what is on offer.

Also you couldn't be more wrong. The Anglo French project requires Leinster, Munster and ulster to give its claim to be a competition for Europe's finest legitimacy. They could take or leave the rest.
In addition ROger lewis, CEO of wru, has ruled out any approach to premiership. The prl have also said that any application would have to be to the lower leagues. They regions are already losing money.
Compromise is required on money split, comp control and comp format in that order if we are to either keep them in the competition or convince irb of their true motive and get them to step in.

Colmoc Leinster or any of the other provinces are branches of the irfu and have no autonomy on this or any other matter whatsoever. The irfu hold the two seats on the erc board and the irb board also.
I would imagine that Dawson is in serious bother with irfu in the morning and Leinster may also be looking for a new CEO if that press release is accurate.

According to the BBC the Premiership clubs have a binding agreement with the RFU to remain in the HEC until 2015:

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24074931

If true it would explain why the Premiership clubs are being so vociferous and the Rabo nations haven't capitulated yet.

Unity is but a facade.

If push comes to shove, Welsh regions will go to Premiership, or at least Cardiff and one other. BT will squeeze Scots clubs to do likewise. Ireland and Iraly will be dropped. Don't trust the Sots or Welsh unions, sorry. Not sure about Ulster either.

IRFU thus should look after its own. how about applying for all 4 to join French expanded league, maybe 2 in expanded Top 16 Top 18 and 2 in division below. (Connacht and Ulster). French would wet themselves, throw in Treviso and they would have a European league, that would be highly sellable to TV, then who needs a HEC, plus then there would be two leagues, but difference in quality and money would be awesome.

Lets see Leinster vs Clermont, Munster vs Toulouse.....or Exeter vs Cardiff, Wasps vs Edinburgh....I know which ones I'd go to.

It would be great for Connacht, even if they realistically started in second division, they would be competitive at worst, and would be pushing promotion . I'd love that.

According to the Sunday Times today Leinster seem to be capitulating to the English/French demands. No idea how true it is but so much for a united front by the Celtic Nations and Italy.

Of cause NZ Aussies and South Africans would support.
World rugby needs the Irish, Welsh, and Scottish as well. To much history to allow the game to fall apart because club owners from France and England think they are bigger than the game.

Paratro- I think you have come up with the best counter attack yet! Unfortunately I'm not sure that the IRB have enough backbone to implement the measures you suggest. It would require kiwi, Aus and SA support. Would they care enough?

Time for the IRB to stand up. Let them go. The HEC is the premier comp here in the north. Are all English and French clubs bound by the owners and not the unions of the country. If not then the IRB is part of the ERC committee. And only players playing in IRB sanctioned comps should be allowed to represent their country at the World Cup or six nations. We would soon see how many of the top players go to the new comp.
McAfferty said when asked would the comp be any good with out the Irish teams and his answe "it would be better with them". But that doesn't include Connacht.
I say let them go and let the so called lesser clubs in and with them offer the clubs and players I ternational rugby. A final would be HEC winner V Super 15 winner. Then 6 nations winner V Champion winner. How's that for a lure. IRB sanctioned.

Difficult to say, I know Boudjellal (Toulon president) put a huge pressure on the "fat cats" of the federation, who suffer a backlash about Hcup final/new national Stadium.... Unable to say more, I'm a Connacht supporter after all!!

Connachta- if the LNR go war with the FFR over this and AFAIK they need FFR approval to proceed, who do you think will win out in the end?
I should ask sea point the same question re PRL and RFU although I think PRL already have upper hand there.