_nobody_ wrote: As far as I am aware all the money from Europe goes to the IRFU and distributed that way so it would have very little effect on Connacht! As the English clubs are privately owned it bypasses the RFU and goes straight to the clubs.

It doesn't afaik, currently the RFU receive and distribute the cash in England too. The Unions are the partners in ERC Limited, not the clubs despite the posturing by PRL. The RFU has given them permission to negotiate within ERC, that is all..

As far as I am aware all the money from Europe goes to the IRFU and distributed that way so it would have very little effect on Connacht! As the English clubs are privately owned it bypasses the RFU and goes straight to the clubs.

This is about the game not money. But the money side needs to be sorted by the IRFU and treat all the provinces equally. Connacht have Munster Leinster and Ulster players thriugghout their academy's and team so we are helping the other provinces as proven by those from Connacht playing elsewhere as well.

illplaybymyself wrote: anyone else notice that sky have been very quiet on the matter, surly they have something big comming that will blow this nonsence out of the water

You'd have to expect them to take the English to court if they renege on the deal they already signed up to. Hence PRLs desire to dissolve the ERC. Had an interesting conversation at work today, this is not my opinion but just to play devils advocate here, would it be the worst thing in the world if Connacht were involved in a new competition where we were guaranteed more money annually?

anyone else notice that sky have been very quiet on the matter, surly they have something big comming that will blow this nonsence out of the water

I just can't see how their proposed alternative competition is anything but a massive bluff to try and force the Rabo's hand and dissolve the ERC. Do they seriously think a competition featuring 3 countries will generate anything like the income the Heineken cup does? As someone else pointed out already Sarries couldn't even half fill Twickenham for a semi-final. How would they even organize the fixtures with the Southern Hemisphere calendar? It'll either end up being a pre-season run out where someone is fielding inexperienced or experimental sides or an end of season slog with knackered players. Sure who wants to watch that? Never mind the fact that Southern and Northern Hemisphere Rugby look like different sports the last couple of years. It's ludicrous. The Rabo teams have openly stated they are willing to accept a smaller tournament with qualification based on merit and a more even distribution of revenue, the fact that the English and French are still unwilling to compromise shows that this was always about money and power. Nothing else. Why should we let ourselves be bullied into a tournament which will be run by self-serving businessmen with no interest in the game? If it is allowed to happen the English and French will run it to suit themselves and no-one else. They haven't even divulged the full details of the contract they signed with BT, a contract it seems they had absolutely no business signing as one had already been signed with Sky. If they're allowed to hold us all to ransom like this Rugby will go the self-perpetuating way of English Football,anyone who follows an English team outside the top few will know it is nigh on impossible to break into the Champions League places. The richest teams will get the best players, ensuring qualification for tournaments and the most prize money and everyone else will be left behind.

Here are the musing of some Munster fans:

Some imaginary fellow who imagined he saw the PRL contract wrote: "A few random musings:
Obviously in this litigious society no one should make statements in relation to other peoples private dealings without having proof. Therefore all we can do is make Hypothetical assumptions about what may be going on. Let's pretend an imagined employee of a national rugby union had seen a copy of the BT deal. He could then give hypothetical explanations to the following recent occurrences.
1) Why the PRL have been so vocal about trying to push their new European league on the rest of us and increasingly so as the deadline draws near.
2) Why the RFU have been so quiet about the whole matter.
3) The French clubs interest over an extended T14.
4) LNR representatives making references to “Contracts being signed” and “having to help the English from the mess they have created”.
5) And most importantly why no one has been shown a copy of the BT agreement except the RFU.

This imagined employee might say that the BT deal "Allegedly" states that:
1) The European pot is highly dependent on the number of tier 1 nation clubs taking part. Less than four nations and only travel costs for each team are paid. Only four and 50% is paid, 5 nation’s means 75% and all 6 are needed for the full 100%.
2) The European pot is for a “NEW” European cup of which the PRL, LNR and BT are the majority shareholders and control 60% of the vote,
3) The amount paid for the premier league is also highly dependent on the formation of a new PRL/LNR European Cup. The figure paid this year consists of a significant % of a “Signing on bonus” this applies to the first year only. For each successive year, a similar bonus exists dependent on the PRL having provided BT with a new European Cup. This is also graded according to the number of Tier 1 nations clubs involved, identical to the conditions above. Zero for less than 4, 75% for 5 etc. If PRL are not able to provide a new European Cup their league payments drop to a lower figure than the previous SKY deal.
4) The BT deal applies to all home games in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. The percentages offered to Scotland, Wales and Ireland as stated by PRL are correct. They however receive around 50% of the total pot and France receives the remainder. How can this be true? Why is the LNR share smaller than now and Italy have none.
5) The LNR have been offered a share of the pot equal to that of Wales, Scotland and Ireland but have also been given the right to negotiate their own TV deal of which PRL will receive, an equal percentage as the LNR receive from the BT deal. To legitimise this based on TV markets, the Italians are allowed (have to) negotiate their own TV deal.
What would this all mean? Yes the other nations would all make more money than they are now. The PRL clubs will however make substantially more money than the Celts. 50% of BT deal plus 11% of LNR deal compared to just 11% of the BT deal for the Celts. The French stand to make even more from a new deal due to the competition between Canal and a new competitor.
However if a new European Cup does not come about the PRL will receive no European money, even for a French/English league. They will also lose their bonus league payments leaving them worse off financially than they are now. By signing the deal they excluded themselves from taking part in any ERC competition, hence it’s all or nothing for them. The LNR have signed a contract for a new European CUP but it is also conditional on having four Tier one nation members before coming into affect. This provides them with the guarantees but it also means they are not prohibited from re-entering the ERC.
This would explain why the RFU are the only ones who have been shown the Deal, and why they have refused to come out against the clubs. Despite not being in favour of the PRL’s actions they now have no choice but to allow a new European Cup or else most of the premier clubs will be bankrupt in time for the World Cup.
Just as well this is all Hypothetical "

For those of you following this thread carefully have a read of post no 1982 on page 67 of " the future of he in doubt" thread over on Munster fans.
I couldn't copy it to here but its very interesting. Its billed as alleged and theoretical of course!

I don't know menace.
I agree that French are less likely to defy their union as they will also be taking on the French ministry of sport who also have to approve their participation which is highly unlikely given the ffr stance. Its also coming thru that the LNR themselves are not united on this and some of the smaller clubs led by blanco and Biarritz believe that war with FFR is not desired. That doesn't mean that they will stick with erc though and may well decide to go it alone. If there was a vote on their future this week its being reported that a significant majority would vote for expanding top14 to 16 teams and not participating in Europe. Its only Toulouse, Toulon and racing that are pushing rugby champions cup with a few others on the fence ATM.

This is all very worrying. I'd say the French will relent to a re-organized Heineken Cup as they legally have to get approval from the FFR to join a new competition, unlike the English clubs. I'd be amazed if there wasn't some form of European Cup next season. Most likely without the English. Off with them I say, they'll come crawling back after a year or two, same as last time. The arrogance and stubbornness from their end has been disgusting. They have zero interest in a pan-European competition that benefits the game, they only care about money and control and if we give in to them it will be disastrous.

The Italians have released a similar statement to the irfu,sru and wru. That's 5 of the 6 unions relevant to the erc against it. Let's hear from RFU please.
Also would be helpful for sanzar to release a statement as these guys regularly refer to south Africa regions particularly but now also aussie and kiwi regions also.

Ryan ‏@RyanWalkinshaw 2h
Unicorns are real, it's just that they are fat and grey and we call them Rhinos...

My god. I've never wanted to laugh and cry so much at the same time.

rossie wrote:

paratro wrote: The big players in this are wheeler of Leicester, wray at sarries, the Gloucester guy and Craig at bath on prl side and bouscetal of Toulouse, boujedhal at Toulon and lorenzetti at racing on lnr side. All very wealthy business men.

just read up on this guy, 24, long blonde hair. He's actually a dj.
a guy trying to change rugby around the world, here is his last tweet.

Ryan ‏@RyanWalkinshaw 2h
Unicorns are real, it's just that they are fat and grey and we call them Rhinos...

its a real account and having a read through it, he seems to be a big kid talking about xbox's and all that

connachta wrote: What about Italians...

h

Just questioning why they haven't released a similar statement also?

paratro wrote: When PRC and LNR talk about their comps is only the top tier teams or all the teams in the countries.

The official line has always been about expanding the game into new markets across Europe and having a three tier comp based on merit. They have dropped that pretence in last couple of weeks and more and more chairmen/owners have admitted that its about revenue and control of the game. The lnr and prl have joined forces to take control of the game from their respective unions. The rest of us are collateral damage. Some have stated a desire to take over the game worldwide and believe that quatari TV will pay them big bucks if they do. Some of the big guns are on record as saying the unions job is the national team and the rest of rugby is their business and that this is how it has to be
The big players in this are wheeler of Leicester, wray at sarries, the Gloucester guy and Craig at bath on prl side and bouscetal of Toulouse, boujedhal at Toulon and lorenzetti at racing on lnr side. All very wealthy business men.

What about Italians...