Munster aren't world beaters by any means, but they are in decent shape both in the Pro12 and CC, are playing much better this season, and have been getting big numbers through the gates.

They also beat us at home.

Completely agree with you on this. The difference in numbers of kids playing rugby at both schools & club level between Connacht and the other three provinces is huge and when you add in the number of years their structures and systems are in place and properly funded by the IRFU, you get some idea of the size of the task in Connacht.
Every provincial academy has a responsibility first & foremost to develop players good enough to play for their province who in turn will take the best of those to the next level (i.e. International). Apart from homegrown players like Buckley, Tiernan, Carty, Henshaw & Blade to name but a few they've unearthed & developed players like Healy, Ade, Dillane & Bealham whose talent and ability were not recognised by their home provinces and would in all probability have been lost to Irish Rugby had it not been for the Connacht academy.
Considering the obvious advantages the other three provincial academies enjoy, I think the Connacht academy is doing an amazing job

I think EvoGeo has shown remarkable restraint on your views on the Academy . He named players he could have named many more . We had 5 internationals on a pitch a la the Academy. How many times did have to go there when we have our inevitable injury crisis. The Academy has been a constant beacon of hope in what can be quite frankly called the mire that can be Connacht Rugby . I'm proud of it and am very disappointed in your remarks

clanman wrote: as far as our Academy goes I think it falls well short of the exaggerated praise it gets, the aim is to produce home grown players for the province who are international standard.

I only seen one and that is Robbie Henshaw, was he even in the academy for 1 year
we've had some decent players come through but trying to compare Blade and McGrath is rose tinted spectacles territory.

I'm not questioning the academy system or the people that run it but just stating the reality as I see it.

I'm not sure if this is the place to discuss it but I think you are being a bit harsh on the academy.

The connacht academy a bit like the munster one is taking in lads that are not getting the same coaching at schools level as say leinster and ulster where due to the strength and conditioning advise/facilities available as well as the level of coaching the young lads are a bit ahead of those coming out of some of the schools in Connacht and munster.

Another thing is the connacht academy has only recently being set up in it current guise and we are producing players for the national under age squads/teams over the last number of years. You can't credit an academy for producing a henshaw or a bod as these guys come through almost bypassing the academy, you measure an academy on the number of players you are turning out that are pushing into underage national squads and making your provincial team.
The likes of TOH, MCKeon, SOB, Buckley, Dillane, Marmion (born in Wales but grandparents and parent from loughrea and moved back at a very young age to join our academy) have all played or are very likely to play for Ireland while Carty (I know a bit hypocritical of me), leader, delahunt, blade, kerrins, o'donnell plus a few I've left out are all in with a shout of playing for Ireland in the future.

I think our academy deserves all the plaudits it gets but the problem we have is using too many of these players too often when their bodies are not able for it yet imo.

I only stated that the Kingspan is paid for, I never made reference to who'd paid for it. You're correct, it was paid for by Peace & Reconciliation commission, which is just another name for the English & Irish governments, but good luck to Ulster for benefiting from a terrible situation, I for one certainly wouldn't begrudge them.
Truth is the Kingspan never affected Connacht one way or the other but we all know that Connacht's current stalemate re the new stadium and zero financial backing from the IRFU is as a direct result of that ridiculously over the top structure down the road in Limerick, the money for which was borrowed from the IRFU and never paid back.

as far as our Academy goes I think it falls well short of the exaggerated praise it gets, the aim is to produce home grown players for the province who are international standard.

I only seen one and that is Robbie Henshaw, was he even in the academy for 1 year
we've had some decent players come through but trying to compare Blade and McGrath is rose tinted spectacles territory.

I'm not questioning the academy system or the people that run it but just stating the reality as I see it.

salmson wrote:

salmson wrote: A statement and a question -

The statement - Ulster did not pay for Ravenhill nor cut their cloth for same, it was paid for by the Peace & Reconciliation & Please Stop Shooting Fund.

The question - why would Hart opt for second choice at Ulster behind Cooney when he would get more gametime as second choice to Murray at Munster (both moves being unconfirmed etc. and so on)?

That was presupposing that the irfu would not deign to weaken connacht further by taking another international cover player off our books. I know people think blade is ready to step up but I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident.

A statement and a question -

The statement - Ulster did not pay for Ravenhill nor cut their cloth for same, it was paid for by the Peace & Reconciliation & Please Stop Shooting Fund.

The question - why would Hart opt for second choice at Ulster behind Cooney when he would get more gametime as second choice to Murray at Munster (both moves being unconfirmed etc. and so on)?

RoadRunnerR1 wrote: I don't see Munster beating Saracens or Clermont, let alone a full strength Leinster team in the champions cup this year and in all probability, with the money & the players in French & English Rugby, they're not going to be in serious contention to win it for several years.
In the Pro12 they're still well behind a full strength Leinster side and despite their league position, I think they're still behind the likes of Ospreys & Warriors also even Scarlets if they ever figure out how to realise their true potential.
Only time will tell how much their improved performance since the untimely passing of Anthony Foley has been down to the emotion felt at his loss that tragic event had some notable knock on effects for Munster in Europe. An in-form and very good Glasgow team had the unenviable task of playing them in Thomand the day after the funeral, a game they were never going to loose to anybody, and by the time the rearranged game with Racing came around, the French were out and just rolled over and played dead. Leicester were abysmal in europe this year but still managed to win one of their double header.
Ulster's opposition in europe Clermont & Bordeaux were a different class to Leicester and Racing this year, and like Connacht they've also been badly hit by injuries this season. They're genuinely unlucky not to be in a strong second place position coming in to these last two games.
The Kingspan is paid for and their has never been a lack of either money or ambition in Ulster. Everything necessary for success in there in abundance and a truly ambitious player with the self confidence & belief required to be one of the best would never settle for a no. 2 slot in this senario and as much as I like him as a player, even I can't see him displacing Murray anytime soon.

Munster are as far away as Kish lighthouse from winning anything.

Substandard front row, ok second row when first choice are fit, so so no7, excellent 6 and 8 when fit but very little back up at 6, 9 top class but no back up, 10 ok but still not international class yet, 12 sub standard (but improving) with no cover, 13 yet to be proven with no cover once taute returns home, 15 questions marks over zebo there but genuine international class player same with Earls on the wing but knower near international class with the rest of the players.

Style of play? Dark ages, good for poor weather attrition fests but not likely to win matches when the ground gets hard and the ball is dry.

If Hart is ambitious he'll go to ulster who look to be really building after years cutting their cloth to measure.

The simple answer would be Ulster are signing Cooney - who's better than Hart - so Hart is signing for the province where he'll get most game time - Munster.

That I can't answer. But surely it's in the best interests of Irish rugby to have a guy like him starting every game for Ulster rather than as a backup in Munster. No matter how much game time he gets covering while Murray is away with the Lions or Ireland there is surely no substitute for being first choice and all the experience and confidence he'd get from that. The IRFU ultimately pay his wages and would have a major say in where he'd end up.

I don't see Munster beating Saracens or Clermont, let alone a full strength Leinster team in the champions cup this year and in all probability, with the money & the players in French & English Rugby, they're not going to be in serious contention to win it for several years.
In the Pro12 they're still well behind a full strength Leinster side and despite their league position, I think they're still behind the likes of Ospreys & Warriors also even Scarlets if they ever figure out how to realise their true potential.
Only time will tell how much their improved performance since the untimely passing of Anthony Foley has been down to the emotion felt at his loss that tragic event had some notable knock on effects for Munster in Europe. An in-form and very good Glasgow team had the unenviable task of playing them in Thomand the day after the funeral, a game they were never going to loose to anybody, and by the time the rearranged game with Racing came around, the French were out and just rolled over and played dead. Leicester were abysmal in europe this year but still managed to win one of their double header.
Ulster's opposition in europe Clermont & Bordeaux were a different class to Leicester and Racing this year, and like Connacht they've also been badly hit by injuries this season. They're genuinely unlucky not to be in a strong second place position coming in to these last two games.
The Kingspan is paid for and their has never been a lack of either money or ambition in Ulster. Everything necessary for success in there in abundance and a truly ambitious player with the self confidence & belief required to be one of the best would never settle for a no. 2 slot in this senario and as much as I like him as a player, even I can't see him displacing Murray anytime soon.

sea_point wrote:

RoadRunnerR1 wrote: I'd have to agree. McGrath's career would seem to have reached a peak and Blade is just getting better & better the more game time he gets.
What I find absolutely amazing in all of this is James Hart's seemingly imminent move to Munster. You'd have to believe the IRFU pushed for him to return given the drastic shortage of quality 9's the media keep talking about available to Schmidt for selection.
And given that they're the one's depriving Ulster of a world class 9 next season (Don't Disagree with the rule) then logically Hart should be going to Ulster next season as their first choice 9 and staking his claim for an Ireland jersey but instead he's heading to Muster as backup to Murray.
He's probably giving up a lot of money by moving back from France which points to his international ambitions so I find it really hard to believe he'd choose No.2 in Munster over No.1 in Ulster.
Given the recent Taute affair & the totally incomparable treatment given to both Connacht & Ulster, A cynical person might draw the conclusion that the IRFU are determined to do everything they can to strengthen the Munster team in order to recoup that €9 million they're owed and they're quite prepared for a little slash & burn with both Connacht & Ulster (Luckily for them they have a large private investment stream to tap into) in order to balance their books. It's not as if anyone in the media is going to pull them up on it.

Between Lions and Ireland call up, whoever is backup to Murray at Munster will see plenty of game time next season.
Any of the test starters in NZ for the Lions won't hit a pitch until October probably and then they'll be off again for the Autumn International build ups...

If he's ambitious, I'd suggest that Munster are probably ahead of Ulster in terms of winning their next silverware...

Did Ulster definitely try to sign him? If it didn't they're either confident they're getting Cooney or wildly incompetent.

sea_point wrote:

Mark Mostyn wrote:

salmson wrote:

Misfit wrote: I know its the Indo so a pinch of salt is to be taken with this

"Ulster have tried to recruit some back-row talent from other provinces but have been unable to convince their targets to move, but Connacht scrum-half John Cooney is understood to have agreed to replace Ruan Pienaar."

www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-ru...hakeup-35361539.html

With my Connacht had on, this is a shame, he's an excellent player and we should look to have the depth we do at 9 at every position.

But from an Ireland POV, it's kind of nuts having the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best Irish scrum halves at one province.

Exactly how I feel, but no way is Blade better than Luke McGrath

Actually I'd say Blade is just as good as McGrath,
But has had less opportunities because for the last three seasons Marmion has been ridiculously consistent, and healthy...

McGrath was hugely overrated simply because he has come out of the Leinster Schools system fro a very strong St Michael's cup winning side, some are genuinely worthy of the fanfare but he's been no more than decent whenever I've watched him in a Leinster jersey. Certainly nowhere near Marmion's standard when fit. He made his Pro12 debut a full year before Marmion, but wasn't able to dislodge eiother of Leinsters two veteran nine's at the time...

They way he was being talked about in the Dublin based media after Ireland U-20's, you'd nearly expect him to be a Lion at this stage instead of still just breaking through in the Leinster jersey. He hasn't nailed down the number nine jersey as his own, Gibson Park is getting as much game time as him in Pro12 fixtures, for a reason..

Fair enough, disagree a bit on Marshall but I've driven this thread far enough off topic, agree Blade is very good.

RoadRunnerR1 wrote: I'd have to agree. McGrath's career would seem to have reached a peak and Blade is just getting better & better the more game time he gets.
What I find absolutely amazing in all of this is James Hart's seemingly imminent move to Munster. You'd have to believe the IRFU pushed for him to return given the drastic shortage of quality 9's the media keep talking about available to Schmidt for selection.
And given that they're the one's depriving Ulster of a world class 9 next season (Don't Disagree with the rule) then logically Hart should be going to Ulster next season as their first choice 9 and staking his claim for an Ireland jersey but instead he's heading to Muster as backup to Murray.
He's probably giving up a lot of money by moving back from France which points to his international ambitions so I find it really hard to believe he'd choose No.2 in Munster over No.1 in Ulster.
Given the recent Taute affair & the totally incomparable treatment given to both Connacht & Ulster, A cynical person might draw the conclusion that the IRFU are determined to do everything they can to strengthen the Munster team in order to recoup that €9 million they're owed and they're quite prepared for a little slash & burn with both Connacht & Ulster (Luckily for them they have a large private investment stream to tap into) in order to balance their books. It's not as if anyone in the media is going to pull them up on it.

Between Lions and Ireland call up, whoever is backup to Murray at Munster will see plenty of game time next season.
Any of the test starters in NZ for the Lions won't hit a pitch until October probably and then they'll be off again for the Autumn International build ups...

If he's ambitious, I'd suggest that Munster are probably ahead of Ulster in terms of winning their next silverware...

I'd have to agree. McGrath's career would seem to have reached a peak and Blade is just getting better & better the more game time he gets.
What I find absolutely amazing in all of this is James Hart's seemingly imminent move to Munster. You'd have to believe the IRFU pushed for him to return given the drastic shortage of quality 9's the media keep talking about available to Schmidt for selection.
And given that they're the one's depriving Ulster of a world class 9 next season (Don't Disagree with the rule) then logically Hart should be going to Ulster next season as their first choice 9 and staking his claim for an Ireland jersey but instead he's heading to Muster as backup to Murray.
He's probably giving up a lot of money by moving back from France which points to his international ambitions so I find it really hard to believe he'd choose No.2 in Munster over No.1 in Ulster.
Given the recent Taute affair & the totally incomparable treatment given to both Connacht & Ulster, A cynical person might draw the conclusion that the IRFU are determined to do everything they can to strengthen the Munster team in order to recoup that €9 million they're owed and they're quite prepared for a little slash & burn with both Connacht & Ulster (Luckily for them they have a large private investment stream to tap into) in order to balance their books. It's not as if anyone in the media is going to pull them up on it.