I for one am proud of what Lam said, he was passionate and produced the evidence to support what he said. He has said that he will leave it to the ref commissioner to decide.

He has a very good reason to be upset, although it should have been game over before that.

I don't believe in corruption but the earlier incident gives rise to claims of bias imo, let the commisioner decide. It showed Hodges low standard at best and at worst?
While I don't want to see soccer standards it is great to see a coach who is so involved with his team that he would risk himself to support his players.

mary hinge wrote: You're wrong Rossie. Pat was dead right to call out Hodges on what was without ****libellous content removed**** You can be sure Hodges was under instruction to "help" the Scottish ref in his handling of the game.

The set up last Friday night stinks, and no amount of "respect for the officials" bulls**t hides that fact.

Ok couple of things, ...

Stop alleging corruption. There wasn't any. Incompetence? Absolutely..

Second thing, he's an SRU official but he's not Scottish. Like Neil Patterson he's an Ulsterman who qualified as a ref while studying in Scotland ...

Also, everyone let's keep swearing to a minimum.
Feck is grand, the other not so cool.
Remember this is not an age restricted site..

Pat was right to question the officials decisions at the end of the game, and has done so in the past with somewhat positive results (ie, he wasn't disciplined but the referee in question was).

In the context of whatever 'tribunal' or review of the game that will be held, he was probably right to point to Hodges' comments at the sportsground, whether they were in jest or not. A referee should never open themselves up to the possibility of being called corrupt or incompetent, which is what he's done by making those comments.

Pat may now see that he said these things in the heat of the moment and if he was asked about it for the first time this morning, there's a good chance he wouldn't have referred to this previous incident in Galway. Not because it would be wrong to bring up in a review scenario but because it was a very sensitive issue to bring up in public and he hasn't got a very good chance of proving conclusively that it happened. Again if there is some sort of tribunal/hearing situation, then he could ask the stewards in question to give evidence, but in the end it comes down to he said/they said, and would depend on hodges admitting he made this statement which seems unlikely.

Some here may find the reference to tribunals above as over the top, but in the context of the alleged remarks the pro12 may be forced to go this far. Any club who felt an official had given incorrect decisions against them on purpose would be pushing for a hearing and looking to get the match result overturned/replayed.

Ultimately I think that if everyone is agreed that the decisions made were objectively wrong then it has finally fallen on the pro12 organization to make a move and try and be seen to be addressing the poor level of officiating. There is no coach or club in the competition who would not be in favour of neutral officials, that is the least that should come out of this debacle. Its not good enough that just the ref should be neutral (which doesn't even happen a lot of the time) as many decisions come down to local TMOs or linesman and continually open themselves up to questioning.

A secondary positive result would be if they gave the referees more guidance about what penalties and infringements need to be given and when (timing, position at rucks for instance) and push for more uniformity between referees. I think this is something that Penney touched on in the past, Lam has, MoC has - all based on super XV experience where this sort of centralized decision making is the norm. If coaches were confident that they will be refereed roughly the same by each ref then it would vastly improve the standard of rugby and again cut down on the number of results that are decided by the foibles of officials.

A third positive but least likely is that the game would be replayed, perhaps at a neutral venue if necessary, at the end of the season/during the semi finals.

Can the tin-foil hat brigade step back for a second - i know this does not come natural to you, but please do it.

Now, If the officials had indeed conspired to 'help' Cardiff beat us they would not have put themselves in a situation where they need to help them in the final minutes. They would have all allowed Cuthbert's try, but they didn't they disallowed it. Which then put them in a tricky position as with time running out they had to concoct a new way of helping Cardiff after looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Do not attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence, and I say this in the context of Hodges being incompetent rater thanPro12/ European Rugby having it in for Connacht.

Seriously you are embarrassing yourselves, calm down.

One thing posters need to be very careful of is alleging anything that may damage a persons character or good name, it's one thing to be unhappy with decisions during a match, it's another to speak of collusion or deliberate actions without any evidence.

For my part all I'm saying is that there was a number of calls in the last 10 mins that could have/ should have gone our way that didn't.

Mary Hinge - my point is that you can voice your opinion ****reference to contentious comments removed**** but Pat Lam cannot imo. He is entitled to criticise the performance of the officials for their performance but he went a lot further and that imo will not be acceptable to the irfu or any governing body. I don't believe he will be sacked but will be very surprised if he isn't dealt with severely. They simply can't allow him to get away with it.

You're wrong Rossie. Pat was dead right to call out Hodges on what was without ****libellous content removed**** You can be sure Hodges was under instruction to "help" the Scottish ref in his handling of the game.

The set up last Friday night stinks, and no amount of "respect for the officials" bulls**t hides that fact.

It was infuriating to watch, knowing that we should have done more and been more dominant on the scoreboard and to witness the season implode in the last few minutes with the help of officials.

The feeling reminded me of watching Mayo v Kerry last year with Cormac Reilly the ref who made the craziest decisions ever witnessed in GAA I'd say. The fans went mental about it, the manager said a few things but the Co Board said fuk all.

I fully support Pat saying it as it is. He highlighted factual stuff as he said. He will go through the 'process' like before but i've no sympathy for Hodges being named. I don't think he's stupid so I can only assume it was his arrogance to say such a comment to a steward. Well I find it hard to see how he can walk into the sport ground or onto a pitch beside Connacht anytime soon.

If he acknowledged he made a mistake it may help and maybe even diffuse the whole idea of him being against us.

Watching the match on Friday , I dont think that ive ever been more frustrated with a game, the last 15 mins were a blur really as i willed on the men in green so I can only imagine what it was like for the mgmt and players. I was raging as were others in our house, I was mad at the players for letting it slip and at the officials for a very inept performance.

Im usually the one leading the charge to respect the referee, but it was so frustrating to watch Cardiff constantly seal off the ball at ruck time, come in from the side and take players out way past the ruck area. Admittedly with glasses with a serious green hue to them I looked over the play from the 80th min, I counted 6 sealing off where players went straight to the ground over the ball, 3 in at the sides, 3 rucking/interfering past the ruck area one leading with the forearm on Masterson and at the end a knock on and playing the ball on the ground. Thats 15 infringements, now even allowing for a very dark shade of green on my glasses thats a lot of infringements to be missed, in the same period Connacht were pinged 4 times and Kearney YC for what was a marginal offside at best and def not material IMO.

It was some time before I calmed down after the game so I can well imagine how Lam and the players felt, Ive no problem with him bring up the clear knock on that was missed but perhaps the alleged comment made to stewards shouldnt have been raised in a public interview.

Ultimately we were the architects of our own downfall, but to have a win so cruelly ripped from your grasp is very hard to take.

rossie wrote: .......The position of the referee and respect for same has always been protected in this game

We should not confuse the respect owed and given to the ref on the pitch by the players, with the right to be critical of poor officials and incorrect decision.
As much as a player at this and international level can (and are) subject to a review of there actions, either on the pitch using the TMO or the post match review (All of which is very public) there needs to be some form of post match review mechanism for poor officials.
Maybe having some sort of proceedure where a team manager can ask the IRB for a formal review of the officials performance.

No matter what, the relationship between Hodges and Connacht has been damaged beyond repair imo. His involvement in any capacity as a match official in a future Connacht game will over shadow the games in a negative way.

For what it's worth. I fully support Pat and his action which probably won't surprise those of you that know me.

Hodges was wrong, what he done was wrong, how he did it was wrong. This call could see Connacht missing out on a sixth place finish, I would have been more upset if Pat Lam said nothing. 1 or 2 bad calls is part of the game but consistently making poor calls should be questioned and that is exactly what Pat has done. I would hazard a guess that he didn't go half as far as he would have liked too. Ask yourself do you want to see Hodges officiating at Connacht games or any games in the future. The best referee I have came across in recent years was refereeing an underage game before the game he told both teams that he he was going to be equally unfair to both sides. If Hodges was equally unfair to both sides it could be put down to the incompetence of a poor official. Unfortunately this isn't the case

even in soccer where managers have made an art form of timely criticism of an official Lam would be facing a significant fine and suspension. This is rugby and to imply as heavily as he has done that an official is bias and essentially corrupt is just not done. I may be wrong on this but afaik there is no precedent for it so there is no way of knowing the outcome. All I know is that the rugby media are shocked by his comments on both sides of irish sea and anticipate action.
the irfu will not be pleased with Lam imo and who knows how referees in general will react.

The position of the referee and respect for same has always been protected in this game. It's instilled in our kids from an early age and Pat attacked that fundamental with his comments.
incidentally matt o conner may have taken some of the pressure off pat yesterday when he called for neutral officials for pro12 games. A calculated supporting comment no doubt and one I support.

Pat Lam may have landed himself in hot water but the only thing he's done wrong is pointed the finger at a particular individual. Its past time someone called the lack of any degree of meaningful professionalism / accountability in this league out for what it is. Since the league has been formed incompetent officiating and / or accusations of bias by home touch judges or TMOs have blighted it. In most instances obviously this is not the case but the league leaves itself open to that claim with their find 3 lads down the pub to do touchjudge and TMO policy. Its the elephant in the room and as usual Celtic Rugby will bury their head in the sand.

The money now in the game means that every call like those made and not made last night has a massive impact on the future of a club. I'm not getting into the blame game about the officials but its time this league was run by professionals before it gets left even further behind.

I don't think there will be a long suspension and a sacking is laughable . He will be asked to explain/ account for his comments. Hodges call was a poor one, the ball was knocked on out of the ruck, Cuthbert then played the ball on the ground yet it was McCarthy that was pinged for in at the side to a now non existent ruck. This was called by Hodges who was a lot further away than the ref.

At the Edinburgh game where it seems Hodges arrived late and tried to get in the wrong gate, to be told correctly to use the bottom gate, seemingly he wasn't impressed. If he did make those comments then it was a pretty stupid comment to make and poor judgement from him to make them.

I'm not suggesting in any way that a pro 12 ref would let a spat with a steward influence his decisions in a match, it would be just a stupid thing to say as it can only back fire on you .

green13 wrote:

rossie wrote: I notice no one has mentioned Lams comments yet which are arguably the most pointed and accusational I've ever heard against an official ( hodges) tbh. I think he is heading for a huge suspension and maybe even sack. its just not rugby and he is wrong to boot imo. He was bad but to aggressively imply biase is disrespectful imo.

Who do you mean is heading for suspension/sack? Lam or Hodges?
I don't think Lam is wrong to say what he did, he obviously felt strongly enough about this not to want Hodges refereeing the upcoming match against Munster. It's a professional sport and there should be certain standards of refereeing/touch judging that are lacking at the moment.
For what it's worth I think the alleged comment made by Hodges before the Edinb match was pretty stupid, you'd expect someone in his position would know to keep his mouth shut, it presumably wasn't just a jokey exchange of banter with the stewards for them to see fit to complain.

Spot on.
Who would sack the best thing that ever happened to Connacht rugby?! The branch, the IRFU? No chance.
Sack Lam and get Eddie O Sullivan in and all his friends in the media can do all the talking for him how match officials get on?
He might get some kinda suspension but not from within the IRFU.
HE SAID NOTHING WRONG!
He said what happened before Edinburgh game, must of been serious if a steward brought it to the branch! (Maybe someone from here saw this happening and might be able to comment).
He was bang on saying that game should be over twice. Hodges over rules ref who was on the spot. Why did Hodges not think the ref could do his job or did Hodges want Cardiff to win?
This is a pro game, loads of money riding on us getting into Heineken Cup, Pats CV and without doubt, players coming/staying here.

Hodges was born in Church Village in Wales, just 10 miles from Cardiff. Should he of been on the line friday? NO!

rossie wrote: I notice no one has mentioned Lams comments yet which are arguably the most pointed and accusational I've ever heard against an official ( hodges) tbh. I think he is heading for a huge suspension and maybe even sack. its just not rugby and he is wrong to boot imo. He was bad but to aggressively imply biase is disrespectful imo.

Who do you mean is heading for suspension/sack? Lam or Hodges?
I don't think Lam is wrong to say what he did, he obviously felt strongly enough about this not to want Hodges refereeing the upcoming match against Munster. It's a professional sport and there should be certain standards of refereeing/touch judging that are lacking at the moment.
For what it's worth I think the alleged comment made by Hodges before the Edinb match was pretty stupid, you'd expect someone in his position would know to keep his mouth shut, it presumably wasn't just a jokey exchange of banter with the stewards for them to see fit to complain.