swift4prez wrote: Hats of to tg4 again doing there best with rugby, showing the draw today.
not long to go now!!!

Shane Horgan a bit more tolerable than Craig Doyle ...

Hats of to tg4 again doing there best with rugby, showing the draw today.
not long to go now!!!

salmson wrote:

fatgav wrote: Did we ever figure out/was it ever explained how it will be decided which pool the 7th French team goes into?

Pinky reckons the 7th French seed is condemned to be in with any one of the others, which means we can't draw Castres (6th French team) or Perpignan (4th) but can draw Racing (7th).

Yeah, I think that is confirmed in the article above from the ERC
"Racing Metro 92, as the lowest-ranked of the seven French clubs, will be drawn last into a pool with another French club"

Which now means Connacht are the only Irish Province that can't draw the Top 14 Champions.

fatgav wrote: Did we ever figure out/was it ever explained how it will be decided which pool the 7th French team goes into?

Pinky reckons the 7th French seed is condemned to be in with any one of the others, which means we can't draw Castres (6th French team) or Perpignan (4th) but can draw Racing (7th).

Did we ever figure out/was it ever explained how it will be decided which pool the 7th French team goes into?

Looks like the draw is next Wednesday:

www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/21236.php

France Jean-Pierre Lux (ERC Chairman)

France Michel Palmié (FFR) René Bouscatel (LNR)
England Rob Andrew (RFU) Peter Wheeler (Premiership Rugby)
Ireland Peter Boyle (IRFU) Philip Browne (IRFU)
Italy Andrea Rinaldo (FIR) Fabrizio Gaetaniello (FIR)
Scotland Mark Dodson (Scottish Rugby) Ian McLauchlan (Scottish Rugby)
Wales Roger Lewis (WRU) Stuart Gallacher (RRW)

www.ercrugby.com/eng/structure/index.php

They know they don't have the votes hence the pulling the house down around them blackmail tactics.

At the moment the breakaway has one definite vote (Premiership Rugby) with two likely votes (RFU and LNR).

There are 2 highly unlikely votes (FFR have indicated they will enter regional teams if the clubs pull out, and the RRW, much as they hate the WRU, are unlikely to vote for their own extinction).

So currently the likely breakdown is 9-3 against the English/French clubs, though anything from 11-1 to 7-5 against is possible.

Anyone know who has votes on this. I know that all 6 unions have 2 votes each with the ffr, rfu and wru allocating 1 of those votes to their club bodies. Thats 12 votes with 8-4 or 7-5 in worst case scenario (wales vote split) who else has a vote?

I think it's important when talking about "The French" and "The English" to remember there are 4 different groups involved from those two countries. The FFR, the RFU, the Top14 and Premiership Rugby are all separate stakeholders in ERC Rugby.

The FFR and RFU aren't nearly as interested in the shakeup the clubs want, and could rein them in a little. All the tub thumping is coming from the clubs, while the unions are more conciliatory.

It could happen that if the English clubs threaten to pull out the RFU themselves might say "suite yourselves lads". The English union and the clubs have been at loggerheads for years, there's no love lost there and PR won't be taking it for granted that the RFU are behind them.

Another perspective on the infamous meeting:

www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-ru...t-over-heineken-cup/

Suggests that once again, the French are not as firmly behind the idea as PRL claim they are.

Irish Independent says only the French and English were involved.

www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-...-doubt-29282030.html

It's questionable whether the French would pull out, also the English proposal to extend the Premiership to 14 teams acknowledges the fact that they can't set up an alternative competition without ERC and IRB approval.

I wonder if BT have a back-out clause from their deal with the Premiership if the European rights are not delivered?

I think you are right colmoc but the problem is we are 12/13 weeks away from that deadline. The top14 starts in mid august afaik. The french require the qualification criteria sorted in advancr of that. The english too.

I hope that this is a purely speculative piece but it doesnt fill me with confidence. If true this amounts to complete capitulation on the pro12s part. The prl will have bullied through their proposals and still held out for their tv deal. A deal in those circumstances is doomed.

Methinks there is much media management this weekend , with lots of Premiership stories in the UK press, all of similar ilk.
The 20 or 24 tams IMO is a red herring. it has no impact on # of matches, still 4 to a group, with QFs and SFs.
As always, this is about money and is more a battle of TV companies. The French really wanted to reform the competition, but the English deal is about money and that will be the issue.

I wold not be surprised if we missed a year, English have form and arrogance, either way, any deal will be a last minute affair.

I think we could at least negociate a 6/6/7 for Hcup
the play-off system would be one match between the 7th and the 8th of each championship, the Rabo winner is directly qualified, French and English winners play a "grand final" for the last 20th spot.

Borders no.2 wrote:

The third tier tournament is a welcome potential development and may give sides like Enisei etc. the chance to show what they can do.


In one way, it's good, but since it sounds like it will consist exclusively of teams from Tier 2 countries, it will almost certainly be ignored by sponsors and the mainstream media, in the same way as the European Nations Cup, and will probably be dropped after one season due to a lack of financial viability.

I really hope your wrong Pinky but I think you might be right. I for one would love to see a tier 3 competition and if the prize money was good and say the winners were guaranteed say Amlin Cup competition then it might not be to bad. Again you'd need some type of seeding system were the stronger teams say Bucaresti could be promoted after a few seasons to the Amlin or like the HEC the Amlim group losers move down to play in the quarters of the tier 3 competition giving it credibility and bring up the playing level.

Borders no.2 wrote: Heineken and Amlin Champions not qualifying for the following season is a joke.

Didn't even cop that. I assumed what he meant was they wouldn't earn an extra place for their league, but would claim one of the guaranteed six and push someone else down to the "playoffs", but sounds like they're suggesting potentially leaving them out altogether.

Borders no.2 wrote: The third tier tournament is a welcome potential development and may give sides like Enisei etc. the chance to show what they can do.

In one way, it's good, but since it sounds like it will consist exclusively of teams from Tier 2 countries, it will almost certainly be ignored by sponsors and the mainstream media, in the same way as the European Nations Cup, and will probably be dropped after one season due to a lack of financial viability.