Back on topic ahem..

I find it sio strange that Heaslip is captain, with a view to him being captain at the next world cup. It doesn't matter if he is or will be the most senior/experienced player. That does not define what a captain is. The captain is the leader, makes the crucial decisions and is in his teams and the refs ear at all times. This is not Heaslip.

In the Wales game it was BOD he rushed the guys to take the penalty quick before the HT whistle went. It was ROG and BOD discussing whether to go for the posts or not yesterday. Heaslip looked clueless out there. Even at the coin toss the flute was wearing his poxy headphones. Doesn't look the part

i think rog will be on bench at very least. if kidney makes the decision to go with something new it will most likely be jackson starting with rog on bench as a safety net. it will prob be other way around tho.

Madigan and Keatley wont get a look in imo. there has been no indication at any time in last 12 mths to suggest that they might.

I'd favour Reddan and Madigan, Jackson hasn't temperament yet, but Madigan is ice, but needs quicker ball. But then he is not established kicker.

Madigan's stats this season are 84% success rate so I'd have no worries there. Yes you might say he doesn't kick the harder ones but when he's called upon to kick he hasn't let Leinster down. Wasn't impressed by Jackson at the Wolfhounds game and think his form at the moment isn't good enough to warrant him in the first 23 let alone first XV. For me Madigan starting and Keatley on the bench.

rossie wrote: The heaslip captaincy question- Im surprised that some of our more knowledgeable posters havent covered this already but Jamie was appointed captain to lead this team into the next world cup in 2015. He was the senior player within the age profile most likely to be at their peak then. that was why a change was made as bod wont be there and its also why best wasnt given it as hes most likely not going to be there either.Hes on a captains central contract which is why it was announced in that way imo.
The game- Imo that was a very tired irish performance. It lacked energy and intensity throughout and the defenive effort in 2nd half last week, which was huge, clearly left its toll on the packs energy levels. the weather and injuries didnt help but imo fatigue was the biggest reason for the poor performance.
Rogs kicking was poor from the hand and he missed a very kickable one from the tee by his standards but his kicking from the hands was poor for a reason. the defensive linespeed from england was exceptional and put the irish backs under pressure all day. that and their physicality at the breakdown caused turnovers and penalties which won them the game. they are a better team without the ball imo at this stage of their development and made us play the game in our half for most of the game.
I think the game Rog is being asked to play both with Munster under penney and also with Ireland doesnt come naturally to him and he is out of his comfort zone as a result. strange as it may sound i think this has affected his confidence somewhat and he is now mre indecisive than at any time in his career. I think he will start against scotland because Jackson, who appears to be frontrunner of rest, isnt ready yet.Hes not even fully trusted by Anscombe at ulster yet so imo he wont start for ireland. Both madigan and Keatly are playing better rugby imo than Rog and jackson but they will get the nod. Earls will start on wing and trimble or fitzgerald on bench. Kilcoyne will start if healy out with court on bench. was phillips cited for stamp on sexton?
the 6ns championship is still wide open. England still have to play wales and france, either of whom are capable of beating them even with their problems.

Rossie the problem with RO'G is that even as a young lad he wasn't quick,when he was younger he had a propensity to think he was quick enough to get out of trouble. He wasn't and invariably he would run into a dead end, get smashed and turn the ball over if he did try to break. At 35 he has no pace at all, was getting spooked by the rush defence and throwing out hospital passes just to get rid of the ball and you could see from the kicking from hand that his leg power is gone. Don't think one of his line kicks to the right touch made more than 15-20 metres, what astounded me more though was that no use was made of Rob Kearney's howitzer left foot but then would you want to be the captain to tell RO'G to hand the ball over??

If Sexton is definitely out, Jackson has been getting an armchair ride at Ulster and still looking flakey so Keatley and Madigan should be brought in. There is no point at all in persisting with RO'G, all he is doing at this stage is blocking the development path for Sextons backup for RWC 2015....

jackson cant kick (pienaar now kicks cause jackson failed time and time again) and he isnt doing a great job at the moment running the ulster game.

i saw most of munsters game vs edinburgh, keatley has the best % from kicks in the league. he played a lot of games so its good he has the best record. he has a good running game and is great in defence, second just behind sexton id say. what is poor at times is his kicking from hand.

rog, time is up.

The heaslip captaincy question- Im surprised that some of our more knowledgeable posters havent covered this already but Jamie was appointed captain to lead this team into the next world cup in 2015. He was the senior player within the age profile most likely to be at their peak then. that was why a change was made as bod wont be there and its also why best wasnt given it as hes most likely not going to be there either.Hes on a captains central contract which is why it was announced in that way imo.
The game- Imo that was a very tired irish performance. It lacked energy and intensity throughout and the defenive effort in 2nd half last week, which was huge, clearly left its toll on the packs energy levels. the weather and injuries didnt help but imo fatigue was the biggest reason for the poor performance.
Rogs kicking was poor from the hand and he missed a very kickable one from the tee by his standards but his kicking from the hands was poor for a reason. the defensive linespeed from england was exceptional and put the irish backs under pressure all day. that and their physicality at the breakdown caused turnovers and penalties which won them the game. they are a better team without the ball imo at this stage of their development and made us play the game in our half for most of the game.
I think the game Rog is being asked to play both with Munster under penney and also with Ireland doesnt come naturally to him and he is out of his comfort zone as a result. strange as it may sound i think this has affected his confidence somewhat and he is now mre indecisive than at any time in his career. I think he will start against scotland because Jackson, who appears to be frontrunner of rest, isnt ready yet.Hes not even fully trusted by Anscombe at ulster yet so imo he wont start for ireland. Both madigan and Keatly are playing better rugby imo than Rog and jackson but they will get the nod. Earls will start on wing and trimble or fitzgerald on bench. Kilcoyne will start if healy out with court on bench. was phillips cited for stamp on sexton?
the 6ns championship is still wide open. England still have to play wales and france, either of whom are capable of beating them even with their problems.

ROG always needed quick pass to give him room. Murray is in Mike Philips mode, strong, abrasive, quick, but slow at getting ball away. I'd favour Reddan and Madigan, Jackson hasn't temperament yet, but Madigan is ice, but needs quicker ball. But then he is ot established kicker. Not sure about Keatley. Prefer Luke Fitzgerald to either Earls or Trimble. However Kidney will go ROG and Trimble.

If Healey is cited, I assume Kilcoyne.

When you put aside the pro-Munster bias that pollutes and inhibits the national side, Heaslip did fine as captain. Pointed at the posts when he should have pointed at the posts, didn't when he shouldn't.

BUT if he wasn't captain he'd have been replaced - conceded 3 of the 5 kickable penalties - so he should never have been made captain, just as Rory Best, who on his day is the best hooker in the world by a country mile, could never be captain of his country due to occasional throwing yips that require him to be hauled ashore.

Same goes for Murray, Sexton, O'Gara (back when he didn't suck donkeys) and so on one - it's not about being the best player on the team, but there has to be a certain base level of performance.

We lost this game - where we one the restart, scrum, lineout and breakdown battles - because our outhalf (ROG) looked like a Michael Crawford impersonator. I can't be believe we've not put him out to pasture, can we thank him for his past brilliance, or must we humiliate him like John Hayes first?

Assuming Sexton's out for Scotland, then Jackson starts, Keatley or Madigan (I'd say Keatley as he covers more positions) goes on the bench; if ROG makes the 23 again then Yoda's signed his own P45.

I'd hate to see the melt down here if Connacht produced that many handling errors in a game :evil:

That's a game that should have been won. England were ponderous and sluggish, but managed to put enough pressure to turn the Irish performance into a stinker. That was a day when you really needed a 10 on song and Rog was just awful, and the blame lies at Kidneys feet. I feel a bit sorry for Heaslip, again this looks to be bad judgement on Kidney's part.

Zebo broke his foot so is out for 10 weeks and looks like Sexton has torn his hamstring so could be out for a good while as well which means that O'Gara will be starting the rest of the games (shudder) the only plus is that Jackson/Keatley/Madigan will get senior experience and that ain't much of a comfort.

I don't envy anyone stepping into the role of captain but Heaslip is 29 now its not like he's been given the captaincy at the age of 24 or 25 he has enough experience at this stage if he's up to the job and as the Autumn and the last two weeks clearly showed he doesn't have the on-field leadership needed and being honest his form never justified the captaincy anyway.

Being captain is a learning curve but that learning curve has contributed to costing us the best chance we'll get at winning a distinctly average 6n championship for the foreseeable future. Heaslip was under enough pressure as it was and Kidney compounded it. A player who is in danger of losing his place shouldn't be made captain. Rory Best was the obvious choice for captain if a change was being made which imo it shouldn't.

Don't think we were as bad as some people here are making out but yes O'Gara was dire and should be jettisoned. Not going to jump on the bash Heaslip wagon either he's new at this and days like these are part of the learning curve. Disappointing result but England deserved to win.

O'Gara was lost God bless him. It really is glaringly obvious for the management to step Jackson , Keatley or Madigan upto the mark now because its all we have at the minute.

Heaslip had a terrible game and I think making him captain has even made him less effective. Very poor today . Should have left O'Driscoll in the role for this season and be done with it.

Healy is a headless chicken sometimes and any citing for his stamping in the ruck will be full merited. Plonker

Darcy was anominous at 12 and you can't win rugby matches at any level if you can't break the game line and we , at Connacht , know that more than most unfortunately.

We are good enough to beat Scotland, just about good enough to beat Italy and ,with France, you never can tell when Ireland are playing them (although they have been absolutely shocking!) .

The bigger question is the coaching staff who appointed him as captain. Everyone in the country knew Heaslip was the wrong choice at captain. He was poor today but he wasn't alone. Would agree with most of the below. Thought O'Mahony did quite well though.

The hard thing to take was that it wouldn't have taken a lot to beat that English team. They are an improving side and Lancaster is untypical of English Rugby in that he seems a good guy who will quietly go about his business but they are far from the finished article yet as their systems started crumbling when Ireland put a semblance of pressure on them.

The lack of conviction and belief to go up the line at 6-12 with 9 minutes left said it all about this team and management. Scores were at a premium but at that stage time was running out and try scoring opportunities were at a premium. When you have a decided advantage in an area you drive it home. Kicking for the posts said to me the best we think we can get is a draw and to compound it the penalty was missed.

We are a very predictable team to play against and with the English defensive line pushing up we failed to react and reverted to kicking the ball aimlessly to Goode who continuously returned it with interest as anyone who had seen him play would know he would.

Time for a new coach and time for O'Gara to step aside. He's been brilliant but it was painful to watch him today. The defeat wasn't his fault but today should have spelled out to him in bold writing that your race is run at this level.

If Kidney picks him against Scotland I don't think I'll even bother watching. I wouldn't like to see him given the Parks treatment as a scapegoat for the defeat but he shouldn't play for Ireland again.

Very disappointing defeat today. I'm not one of those Munster "fans" who've jumped on the anti-Heaslip bandwagon, but he had a shocker today. Inept in every aspect of his game. His handling was poor. His positioning was poor, and he was absent as a Captain, particularly in the second half.

What did we learn today?

Healy will get at least 4 weeks when he's cited for his stamp (and deservedly so) so Court should start against Scotland with Kilcoyne on the bench. Best had a fine game as always. Ross was competent in the scrum which is what he's paid to do. Macca was poor other than in supporting Ross in the scrum. Ryan and O'Mahoney brought little enough to the game. O'Brien played well and never stopped trying.

Best, Ross, and O'Brien get pass marks.

In the backs today has proved if nothing else that O'Gara has got to be replaced. Terrible performance. Murray, D'Arcy, and O'Driscoll competent. Gilroy was good. Always looks to try something different. Kearney is not playing well, and Earls isn't really international class.

And that England team were there for the taking.