sea_point wrote: Sky's Hyperbolic style of coverage as it tried to sell rugby to a wider market also helped build the myth that silence for kicker in Rugby grounds was new, it wasn't it just helped them promote rugby as a different product for subscribers not from a rugby background...

Great point

I've attended many provincial games in the all the provincial grounds since the mid 1970's (that I remember, and many more before that I don't) as my dad was heavily involved in Connacht Rugby at the time and as the youngest I was towed along. (In perspective, for the Sportsground it was three variations of the main stand ago.)

At the time silence for kickers was a standard in all the provinces grounds, and it's easy to believe that was very much the case further back also. Partially because people were far more courteous by default, and the crowds even for the InterPro's were not massive at all and the rivalries in the terraces and the stands were not anywhere as vocal as in the local provincial league (club) skirmishes. At International level the first games I remember attending were the Wales & Scotland games in the 1982 Triple Crown, and the same respect applied generally...

Back in the day as kids we knew not to open their mouths when a kick was being taken, parents simply wouldn't ignore bad behaviour back then (and never excuse it) and it generally carried on into adulthood. It was a time of being seen and not heard, not answering back to elders etc....

To even reference "silence for kickers" is pretty much a modern phenomena, even in the professional era because up until it was pointed out it by the likes of Sky, it was a general acceptance in most Irish provincial grounds. But sure crowds up until the last 5-10 years have by and large not been massive and the heavy duty rivalries we see now really only ramped up from Leinster's win of the CL back in 01-02 and then ramped up with Munster's first Heineken Cup win.

Sky's Hyperbolic style of coverage as it tried to sell rugby to a wider market also helped build the myth that silence for kicker in Rugby grounds was new, it wasn't it just helped them promote rugby as a different product for subscribers not from a rugby background...

I can see Overstrander's point though, but personally don't agree with it. Me I like the little show of respect in much the same way that I prefer a minutes silence over a minutes applause in memoriam of someone passed. It's a moment to think and remember, and it's lot harder to be quiet than to make noise. Jeering an opposing player catching a high ball is still relatively new as well, I think it sort of gradually transitioned from football where crowds jeered the goalkeeper as he took his run up from a kickout.

The French as ever are a different (rugby) culture at games and that's fine for them, they grow up with that behaviour as norm at all levels. Their supporters make noise to support their kickers, and they're grown up shouting and whistling during opponents kicks. But they are more animated as a people anyway, like the Italians and Spanish too..

This already happens. Just because it doesn't happen when a 10 is taking a penalty doesn't mean it doesn't happen the rest of the match. And then we talk about respecting the 10. Doesn't add up for me.

I take your point but most of it is banter rather than anything mean-spirited. In some other sports its crowds or factions who do this. In rugby it's usually just one dope. I don't want it to spread more.

I like the silence thing, regardless of where it came from. I also agree with those who believe it actually adds pressure to a kick.

Last year I arranged for some visiting American colleagues to go to the Quins game. In a meeting the following week, one of them was describing the whole experience to the rest of the guys over there, and his main point was about the dead silence during the kicks. He thought it was great, but couldn't quite believe it, as a New England Patriots fan in the NFL, he said they do anything they can to distract opposition players.

I also agree with Overstrander to a certain extent. There does seem to be an element of hypocrisy in the way we remain silent for place kicks, but shout our heads off at other times. I think that's fine too. Most of what goes on is playful - like the way we do the donkey thing when an opposition player knocks on. I'm sure nobody would like to hear anything abusive being shouted, but I'm confident the reaction of the majority of fans would be enough to quieten anyone being abusive. Similar to the way rugby players don't allow diving or playacting for the most part.

connachtexile wrote:

I don't care where it started,

One of the reasons i enjoyed playing rugby is the sportsmanship in the sport, players don't argue with the ref, if they do they loose an extra ten meters, compare that to soccer!

Also forming a tunnel after the game shows respect for the opposition,

I wouldn't want to go to a game or take my younger relations if I know there going to hear all sorts of jeers and stuff being screamed at. I'm not saying that that's Overstranders intention or desire but I think it allows a certain element to think that it is fine to scream abuse. We've done well to keep alot of the gentleman ethos of the game intact and I think a lot of the older heads like myself would see this as the start of a slippery slope to a place we don't want to go.

This already happens. Just because it doesn't happen when a 10 is taking a penalty doesn't mean it doesn't happen the rest of the match. And then we talk about respecting the 10. Doesn't add up for me.

I don't care where it started,

One of the reasons i enjoyed playing rugby is the sportsmanship in the sport, players don't argue with the ref, if they do they loose an extra ten meters, compare that to soccer!

Also forming a tunnel after the game shows respect for the opposition,

Plus 1.

It's one of the reasons I love Rugby so much. I couldn't care less who invented what, it's the motive behind it that shows respect to the other individual and in a game like Rugby where there is such potential to get hurt, nurturing an environment of mutual respect is not only nice but practical as well. The first time I played rugby myself and my team (a bunch of tough nuts and street kids) where sat down and told that if we played rugby we then gentlemen and were expected to behave as so and if any of the coaches saw us doing anything that wasn't honourable we were going to be kicked off the team and they meant it. After a bit it was 'cool' to shake hands and help each out on the pitch. It might not have made us better players but it made us better people.
I wouldn't want to go to a game or take my younger relations if I know there going to hear all sorts of jeers and stuff being screamed at. I'm not saying that that's Overstranders intention or desire but I think it allows a certain element to think that it is fine to scream abuse. We've done well to keep alot of the gentleman ethos of the game intact and I think a lot of the older heads like myself would see this as the start of a slippery slope to a place we don't want to go.

The Scottish fans booed Carter for all the kicks against the All Blacks, it didn't really do them any good and got to a stage where it seemed a bit cheap and ridiculous (Carter scored all 6 conversions along with 3 penalties - as you would expect from Carter really).

ConnachtCows: I think that is brilliant about the Ulster fans, they have it spot on along with Munster in my book.

Going slightly off topic, I remember being at the Connacht vs Ulster game back in the 06/07 season I think it was.
Ulster were up by 8 points or so, and the 80 minutes were gone. We got a kickable penalty to get the losing bonus point. I was in the main stand at the time, and I had been standing with a large group of Ulster fans all game. We had a brilliant time with them.
Anyway, there was deadly silence as Warwick (I think) was lining up the kick. As he ran to take the kick, a female Ulster fan started screaming, in an effort to put off Warwick.
Anyway, Warwick made the kick, and the ref blew the whistle. We had got our losing bonus point.
Immediately a huge group of Ulster fans went down to this woman, and started giving out to her.
They told her that what she did wasn't on, and she had let down Ulster rugby. They then told her not to do that ever again.
I'm not sure what the moral of the story is, but I thought it would fit in here nicely

I think it's silly.

Firstly, who says staying silent is showing respect? If that's the case, why do we jeer at a player who gets yellow carded or knocks on? Why do we make noise when an opposition defender is about to take a high ball? Surely respect should be extended to these instances as well if you want to play that card?

Secondly, this is our ground, anything that makes it more difficult for the opposition to win should be embraced. Home advantage should mean something. I respect all players (or most of them anyway), but anything that we, the supporters, can do to help our team when playing at home, then we should do it. If the silence puts them off, then great, never really thought about it like that before, I have to say.

I know I am in the minority on this one.

I don't care where it started,

One of the reasons i enjoyed playing rugby is the sportsmanship in the sport, players don't argue with the ref, if they do they loose an extra ten meters, compare that to soccer!

Also forming a tunnel after the game shows respect for the opposition,

Just my thoughts

Although it's not always as respectfully observed elsewhere as it usually is in Thomond Park I would have thought this is now seen as an Irish tradition and a unique one at that. You'd often see southern hemisphere players in particular commenting on it after they've been up here. I'm a big fan of it and wish it was better observed in the Sportsground sometimes. It is a mark of respect and it undoubtedly adds pressure to kickers who aren't used to it. I recall watching a Stade Francais game a couple of years ago, not sure who they were playing (could have been a Top 14 match) but they had obviously played an Irish team recently and been impressed or rattled by it as just before any penalties/conversions they flashed 'Please respect the kicker by remaining silent' (au francais obviously) on the big screens in the Stade De France. Let's just say it was not respectfully observed! I think it's a tradition we can be proud of.

Often thought about that myself actually. I would probably prefer if I felt that people were not solely concentrating on me.

Regardless if it's a tradition or not I feel complete silence for a kicker adds pressure

Well said.

It's been a rugby tradition for as long as I remember. I dont care who started it, I like it, and it seems to be the norm at every game I go to

Rossie's perceived defense of Munster began on this thread ,by showing support for fans being silent during kicks.It could just as easily be seen as a generic support,for this mannerly act.But being from Munster ,he's got a bit of grief as he was seen to be standing up for Munster Traditions on a Connacht thread.

If this tradition was started in Munster ,fair dues to them and it's one worth copying .Irrespective of your views on Munster or at the risk of being a wagon jumper.1 to 50,000 etc people being silent for 20 seconds ,out of respect for tradition or your/opposing team is truly wonderful.I like to think of it as an Irish tradition ,which, yes was very likely started in Munster.If you don't approve of the silence,fair enough thats up to you.If your opinion is any way swayed by some Munster bias ,than tis a bit mad .