And he didn't even get a yellow! Classic Steve Walsh, more interested in being mates with the players than reffing a game properly.

rossie wrote:
loughs, and im a fan, form hasnt been good this season. he got s crewed by the player welfare system in that white got the jersey cheaply and has kept it. imo ronan hasnt taken this well and its affected his form. ditto wilkinson.

i spoke to gerry thornley about ronan after leinster/munster in aviva.(dont know him but he joined us for a chat for a few minutes). his opinion of loughs is that hes a bit soft for international rugby. i got the impression that it was a view held by others in and around the international set up. hes well liked by thornley but thats the opinion none the less.

I'd agree with that analysis.

For me Ronan just doesn't have enough Dog about him to get the jersey back. While he may now be technically proficient at TH he's not big enough to physically dominate nor aggressive enough to sort out his opponent if they're messing him about.

If all you want is a prop to hold up a scrum and do the general work about the park he's grand but he's not they type of player to get into an opponents head. He's like a small John Hayes (3 inches and 15KG smaller), like Hayes a very likeable guy. But Hayes was big enough (and inherently) strong enough to not get pushed around by more technically proficient opponents despite his general demeanour.

Put it this way, who would you say it's safer to wind up Ronan or Nathan..??

ummm, wrote: Quoth Kidney after the match

“All the talk about Michael Bent three weeks ago, what you would not have known was that on the Thursday of camp week when we said he was in the squad, Mike Ross had walked off with a hamstring strain,” explains Kidney.

“Declan Fitzpatrick had gone back up with a bang to the head. <strong>Ronan Loughney, who we had invested in, was not getting pitch time.</strong> There was no other Irish prop. It was that thin. So that is where the work needs to be done. Not in public, it just needs to be managed properly.”

I supposed he's just saying something we all knew anyway, but interesting to see it being said all the time.

But there have been a number of instances of players starting for Ireland when they weren't starting for their provinces (Stringer v O'Leary, DOC before Ryan finally got the nod) so I'm not so sure this isn't another instance of total horseshot from Kidney.

not really the best of examples there. tol overtook strings in both camps at the same time and ryan played 6 for munster with doc in 2nd row. last season was his first starting ahead of doc in 2nd row and reverted to 6 due to injuies in backrow. a better example would be gilroy who was clearly behind trimble at ulster before last saturday. it remains to be see if anything has changed.

loughs, and im a fan, form hasnt been good this season. he got s crewed by the player welfare system in that white got the jersey cheaply and has kept it. imo ronan hasnt taken this well and its affected his form. ditto wilkinson.

i spoke to gerry thornley about ronan after leinster/munster in aviva.(dont know him but he joined us for a chat for a few minutes). his opinion of loughs is that hes a bit soft for international rugby. i got the impression that it was a view held by others in and around the international set up. hes well liked by thornley but thats the opinion none the less.

Quoth Kidney after the match

“All the talk about Michael Bent three weeks ago, what you would not have known was that on the Thursday of camp week when we said he was in the squad, Mike Ross had walked off with a hamstring strain,” explains Kidney.

“Declan Fitzpatrick had gone back up with a bang to the head. Ronan Loughney, who we had invested in, was not getting pitch time. There was no other Irish prop. It was that thin. So that is where the work needs to be done. Not in public, it just needs to be managed properly.”

I supposed he's just saying something we all knew anyway, but interesting to see it being said all the time.

But there have been a number of instances of players starting for Ireland when they weren't starting for their provinces (Stringer v O'Leary, DOC before Ryan finally got the nod) so I'm not so sure this isn't another instance of total horseshot from Kidney.

Hate to see the bench being emptyed, its not an u12 game where everyone has to get a game.

the match was over after 50mins, that was the time to bring on kilcoyne and bent in order to see what they were capable of and to give them experience.

No problem with macca coming off when he did after another good shift, but bringing lads on for the last 8 mins is just stupid, though I remember that he brought cullen on with 30secs to go in the AB game a few years back, thats something that you do with the fat boy who cant run,kick or catch the ball but turns up every night for training.

In theory with kidney you could have 30 caps and have less then 3 full games under your belt, what it does is it devalues the honour of playing for Ireland.

rossie wrote:

mary hinge wrote: It wasn't surprising either to see Kidney summon Macca ashore 10mins before any other replacement in order to further add to O'Callaghan's cap tally.

This guy's antipathy to Connacht (and I don't know whether it's personal or under orders from the IRFU) gets my goat.

this is what you take out of yesterdays game?!!.

i guess if you have to dig this deep to feed your agenda then things must be on the up!

No problem with the Macca for O'Callaghan switch, but really pissed off at Kidney's running the bench for five minutes each. Not a fan of giving guys caps for just turning up, if you want to give replacements game time then give them twenty minutes not five (He made 6 changes after the 72nd minute)nad it it cost us and structure and gifted Argentina two tries.

Personally I absolutely hate the raft of changes that occurs when a game is dead, I would really like to see the IRB ban wholesale substitutions after 60 minutes, and only allow replacements after that for injuries...

connachtexile wrote:

havent heard kidneys critisism of ross, what did he say? its very unlike him to single out individuals in any manner.

There was no direct quotes. It was done in the usual way through journalists who said that management weren't happy with him (you know who they are). Apparently it was why Ross was played against Fiji for him to redeem himself.

Also a an independent citing commissioner is looking at a potential eye-gouging incident on POM in the game. Knew it was going to happen. Hopefully he gets the book thrown at him.

i didnt c papers but hook did say before game when asked about ross that he didnt think he was match fit. he blamed the the player welfare program for this stating that he hadnt enough rugby played.

he did struggle in scrum v sa and even fiji so maybe there is something to it. he was solid yesterday though.

It was clearly shown on TV, but as close up so they might not know who belonged to the offending fingers.

havent heard kidneys critisism of ross, what did he say? its very unlike him to single out individuals in any manner.

There was no direct quotes. It was done in the usual way through journalists who said that management weren't happy with him (you know who they are). Apparently it was why Ross was played against Fiji for him to redeem himself.

Also a an independent citing commissioner is looking at a potential eye-gouging incident on POM in the game. Knew it was going to happen. Hopefully he gets the book thrown at him.

Macca looked dead on his feet, it was right to call him in. The issue, as always, was that he took so long to bring on fresh legs for the others, especially seeing as it wasn't a tight game.

mary hinge wrote: It wasn't surprising either to see Kidney summon Macca ashore 10mins before any other replacement in order to further add to O'Callaghan's cap tally.

This guy's antipathy to Connacht (and I don't know whether it's personal or under orders from the IRFU) gets my goat.

this is what you take out of yesterdays game?!!.

i guess if you have to dig this deep to feed your agenda then things must be on the up!

It wasn't surprising either to see Kidney summon Macca ashore 10mins before any other replacement in order to further add to O'Callaghan's cap tally.

This guy's antipathy to Connacht (and I don't know whether it's personal or under orders from the IRFU) gets my goat.

havent heard kidneys critisism of ross, what did he say? its very unlike him to single out individuals in any manner.

I also thought Half back worked very well today as it did imo in 1st half of SA game. they seem to be developing well now as a partnership. Murray took control of the mauls today which is a welcome development.
All in all it was a good team performance apart from restarts which are still a problem as Borders pointed out.

Definitely agree. Murray has received a lot of criticism (a lot of it warranted to) but he had a great Autumn Internationals. We need to do some serious work on the restarts. Can anyone explain why Sexton kicks so long when he restarts a game? O'Gara came on and the first restart he kicked was short and we won back the ball. Sexton seems to think that if he doesn't get it into there 22 he isn't doing his job.

As for the pack I think that Ross got undeserved criticism off Kidney during this Autumn Internationals. There seems to be a school of thought that a prop doesn't need to scrummage if he can carry the ball. It's why we got subjected to Tony Buckely for so long and why Sean Archer got called up to the International squad ahead of a lot of great scrummagers. Penney and Kidney seem to follow this tread of thought and we're not innocent ourselves with Ah You. Don't know if McGahan did or the central contract of Buckley tied his hands. Ross who learned his trade in the AIL and then Harlequins is a scrummager first and foremost. You might get a carry if your lucky but the scrum comes first. Kidney for some insane reason holds this against him.

connachtexile wrote:

Great win by Ireland! That said we were dire the last 20 minutes between Sexton slicing the ball out and Strauss throwing crocked. As for O'Gara WTF was he doing passing the ball to the Argentine to score?! Still 7 tries and the young lads did well. Red as was the norm this week was dire.


rog tried the short drop out(similar to parks v leinster) and got it badly wrong.

is the last line a typo? i dont understand it.

I meant to say Ref. I've edited it above. He really seemed to hate Peter O'Mahony for what ever reason the boy couldn't do anything right in his eyes. Kidney has taken some brave leaps this last few weeks in blooding new players and they've repaid them in spades. It reminds me when the likes of Horgan, stringer and O'Gara were all thrown on together a few years ago and that kicked off a great era in Irish Rugby. Hopefully this starts off a new one.

P.S. Wouldn't be surprised to see a complaint made about eye gouging coming out this week. It was were the prop got sin binned for throwing the ball at Healy. I saw Zebo and one or two others say it to the ref.

I agree fef was poor. For some of the pens he gave there was just no offence occurring. The one that immediately comes to mind is the first one. Darcy tackled, rolled away and came back after ball. Before he did Pom came over the ball and got his hands on it. Argie holds on and pen is awarded to argie foe irish player off his feet(which one?) when both were clearly on their feet.

Gilroy was mpressive. i have to admit that i put too much fate in anscombes judgement of a player(trimble ahead of him in ulster) and thought he might struggle today but he was born for it. He has the attitude and workrate of a young stringer combined with the sidestep and slipperyness of a young jason robinson which is a coaches dream in a winger.
I was also impressed with the work rate and agression of the pack. they lack a bit in bulk atm but they have potential as a unit. THere are better individuals missing but the unit imo is better balanced atm. There are a lot of egos in the old pack that have got in the way of job at hand in previous times.this pack all know their roles and are fulfilling them. The last time our superstar pack did this imo was against Australia in world cup. Since then the majority of games they have been lining up in midfield wanting to carry ball and neglecting their bread and butter of securing it. imo this cost us qtr final v wales and many other games.i include POC, SOB, Ferris an heaslip in this.
I also thought Half back worked very well today as it did imo in 1st half of SA game. they seem to be developing well now as a partnership. Murray took control of the mauls today which is a welcome development.
All in all it was a good team performance apart from restarts which are still a problem as Borders pointed out.

Borders i was joking about 4 more years. Kidney will have to deliver a 2nd grand slam to even be considered imo. This is why les kiss finds himself double jobbing for ireland atm. IRFU arent willing to hire anyone until the summer.

Great win by Ireland! That said we were dire the last 20 minutes between Sexton slicing the ball out and Strauss throwing crocked. As for O'Gara WTF was he doing passing the ball to the Argentine to score?! Still 7 tries and the young lads did well. Red as was the norm this week was dire.


rog tried the short drop out(similar to parks v leinster) and got it badly wrong.

is the last line a typo? i dont understand it.

I meant to say Ref. I've edited it above. He really seemed to hate Peter O'Mahony for what ever reason the boy couldn't do anything right in his eyes. Kidney has taken some brave leaps this last few weeks in blooding new players and they've repaid them in spades. It reminds me when the likes of Horgan, stringer and O'Gara were all thrown on together a few years ago and that kicked off a great era in Irish Rugby. Hopefully this starts off a new one.

P.S. Wouldn't be surprised to see a complaint made about eye gouging coming out this week. It was were the prop got sin binned for throwing the ball at Healy. I saw Zebo and one or two others say it to the ref.