Just as 2 posts above ill have a list of refs we'd have over the season. handy to look over. not worth new tread

Round 1: Connacht vs Zebre: Rhys Thomas (WRU, 2nd competition game)
Round 2: Cardiff vs Connacht: Claudio Blessano (FIR, 4th competition game)
Round 3: Connacht vs Ulster: John Lacey (IRFU, 30th competition game)

Round 4: Connacht vs Ospreys: Andrew McMenemy (SRU,23rd competition game)
Round 5: Treviso vs Connacht: Neil Hennessy (WRU, 15th competition game)
Round 6: Leinster vs Connacht: David Wilkinson (IRFU, 23rd competition game)

Round 7: Connacht vs Glasgow: Neil Paterson (SRU, 55th competition game)
Round 8: Connacht vs Scarlets: Matteo Liperini (FIR, 5th competition game)

It's worth pointing out that last year we were joint bottom of the table with 16. This year we have 26. That's a pretty good increase after complaining last year.

Also, I won't be doing this next year. Far too bored of it now!

handy to have a pile of our "friends" during the season in the same spot

round 1- Connacht vs Blues, Andrew McMenemy (SRU, 12th competition game)
round 2- Zebre v Connacht: Ian Davies (WRU, 2nd competition game)
round 3- Connacht v Scarlets: Neil Paterson (SRU, 43rd competition game)

round 4- Glasgow v Connacht: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 54th competition game)
round 5- Connacht v Leinster: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 41st competition game)
round 6- Ulster v Connacht: George Clancy (IRFU, 49th competition game)

round 7- Ospreys v Connacht: George Clancy (IRFU, 50th competition game)
round 8- Connacht v Treviso: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 21st competition game)
round 9- Dragons v Connacht: Giuseppe Vivarini (FIR, 4th competition game)

round 10- Connacht v Edinburgh: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 14th competition game)
round 11- Connacht v Munster: Dudley Phillips (IRFU, 26th competition game)

round 12- Leinster v Connacht: John Lacey (IRFU, 22nd competition game)
round 13- Connacht v Dragons: Andrew MacMenemy (SRU, 18th competition game)
round 14- Scarlets v Connacht: Matteo Liperini (FIR, 3rd competition game)

round 15- Connacht v Ospreys: Guiseppe Vivarini (FIR, 5th competition game)
round 16- Blues v Connacht: Dudley Phillips (IRFU, 32nd competition game)
round 17- Connacht v Zebre: Neil Hennessy (WRU, 14th competition game)

round 18- Munster v Connacht: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 56th competition game)
round 19- Edinburgh v Connacht: Rhys Thomas (WRU, 1st competition game)
round 20- Connacht v Ulster: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 47th competition game)

round 21- Treviso v Connacht: Neil Paterson (SRU, 50th competition game)
round 22- Connacht v Glasgow: George Clancy (IRFU, 55th competition game)

1st- 20th = 9 games
21st- 40th = 4 games
41st - upwards = 9 games

ummm, wrote: I'm saying the more experienced the ref the less likely he is to affect the outcome of games through silly mistakes, not bias. This means teams that have less experienced games have an extra (and uncontrollable) element to deal with which can affect the final result. You can plan for everything the opposition do, but not bad calls.

It annoys me that people think just because a team is in 8th or 9th then their games don't matter.

They matter to the season ticket holders who have paid to watch games. They matter to the team that knows it'll be easier to sign a new player if they reach 6th or 7th in the table compared to staying where they are and it matters to the CEO who needs a better league position to attract sponsors. Splitting the league into two groups of those deserving of better officials leads to a haves and have nots situation.

I agree with the nub of your argument, just not the comment about the ref choices determining table placings.

Certainly there is no acceptable reason why lower profile teams should have less experienced refs for the bulk of the season, but I can see the validity in the games that 'matter' at the end of the season, e.g. everyone above Munster who are either playing for a play-off spot or a home semi, in having the most experienced refs.

I'm saying the more experienced the ref the less likely he is to affect the outcome of games through silly mistakes, not bias. This means teams that have less experienced games have an extra (and uncontrollable) element to deal with which can affect the final result. You can plan for everything the opposition do, but not bad calls.

It annoys me that people think just because a team is in 8th or 9th then their games don't matter.

They matter to the season ticket holders who have paid to watch games. They matter to the team that knows it'll be easier to sign a new player if they reach 6th or 7th in the table compared to staying where they are and it matters to the CEO who needs a better league position to attract sponsors. Splitting the league into two groups of those deserving of better officials leads to a haves and have nots situation.

ummm, wrote:
Teams are being preselected for favourable refereeing appointments. The league itself, unwittingly or otherwise, is stacking the deck in favour of the established sides and creating a situation where teams are disadvantaged due to consistently inexperienced officials even before the start of the season. This is obviously going a long way to predetermining eventual standings.

While I think it is obvious from the table you've compiled that higher profile teams get more experienced refs, it seems to be a bit of a stretch to say it has an effect on standings (is that what you are saying?). Unless you're suggesting that less experienced refs have an inherent bias in favour of higher profile teams. I don't see any real evidence for that.

Less experienced refs are more likely to be given games where there is no high profile team involved - fair enough, but it hard to see how the sum of the points from the game gathered by the two teams would be any less than with an experienced ref.

Surely what you expect to get from an experienced ref is a higher level of consistency and fairness (but even this assumption is questionable IMO).

Right, I'm done. Have very little energy left for this table, but here's the final one, updated for all the past weeks I've missed.

	Team	Average ref experience (in games)
1.	Ospreys	42
	Ulster	42
3.	Leinster	34
4.	Scarlets	34
5.	Munster	33
6.	Glasgow	30
7.	Blues	29
8.	Connacht	26
9.	Dragons	25
10.	Zebre	21
11.	Treviso	18
12.	Edinburgh	16

Leinster have stormed up the table on the back of being given Owens 3 times in the last five weeks.

While last year I was annoyed at the lack of a fair go given to us, right now I'm annoyed with the favouritism given to others. The final table closely mirrors final league standings, bar Treviso beating the odds.

Teams are being preselected for favourable refereeing appointments. The league itself, unwittingly or otherwise, is stacking the deck in favour of the established sides and creating a situation where teams are disadvantaged due to consistently inexperienced officials even before the start of the season. This is obviously going a long way to predetermining eventual standings.

I haven't updated for a while. Six Nations depression and lethargy played its part!

We are holding steady at 6th, which is pretty good. Connacht fans have a traditionally distrustful attitude with regards to Rolland, and a lot put that down to him not liking the poky Sportsground. We'll see how he enjoys Musgrave. Will probably end up with a load of Munster fans complaining about him this time round.


Week 18

Munster v Connacht: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 56th competition game)
Leinster v Glasgow: Nigel Owens (WRU, 94th competition game)
Edinburgh v Ulster: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 26th competition game)
Treviso v Blues: Giuseppe Vivarini (FIR, 7th competition game)
Ospreys v Dragons: John Lacey (IRFU, 27th competition game)
Zebre v Scarlets: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 45th competition game)

	Team	Average ref experience (in games)
1.	Ulster	41
2.	Ospreys	36
3.	Munster	32
4.	Scarlets	29
5.	Glasgow	29
6.	Connacht	25
	Leinster	25
	Dragons	25
9.	Blues	22
	Zebre	22
11.	Edinburgh	18
12.	Treviso	17

And so the slow, inexorable slide into the gravitational pull of the lower half begins. A black hole from which we will not escape.

The first half of the season (weeks 1-11) we averaged 28 games experience, now we're averaging 12. This is what you get when you're at the bottom of the league. If Connacht want this to improve, then they need to improve their results. No shock that the top team in the Pro12 is not only at the top of this table too, but actually increasing its score.

Could be worse, though, we could be getting shafted like Glasgow, who average 7 games experience on the road and with only one of their away games reaching double figures in ref experience.

Connacht v Ospreys: Guiseppe Vivarini (FIR, 5th competition game)
Scarlets v Munster: Dudley Phillips (IRFU, 31st competition game)
Leinster v Treviso: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 25th competition game)
Ulster v Zebre: Neil Paterson (SRU, 47th competition game)
Edinburgh v Cardiff: John Lacey (IRFU, 26th competition game)
Dragons v Glasgow: Claudio Blessano (FIR 1st competition game)

	Team	Average ref experience (in games)
1.	Ulster	41
2.	Ospreys	34
3.	Scarlets	30
4.	Dragons	27
5.	Munster	25
6.	Connacht	24
7.	Zebre	22
8.	Leinster	21
	Blues	21
10.	Edinburgh	19
11.	Treviso	16
12.	Glasgow	15

After a quick double check, swift4prez was right, I had missed a week somewhere. Quick double check and the following is the correct table.

	Team	Average ref experience (in games)
1.	Ulster	40
2.	Ospreys	36
3.	Scarlets	30
4.	Dragons	29
5.	Connacht	25
	Munster	25
7.	Blues	21
	Leinster	21
	Zebre	21
10.	Edinburgh	18
11.	Glasgow	16
12.	Treviso	15

In regards to Glasgow without admittedly digging too deep into it I'd say first they are expected to be the weaker of the two Scottish sides at the beginning of the season so early ref selection may reflect that view and second they have been hurt by having two French refs with little Rabo experience though not necessarily little overall reffing experience. It will be interesting to see how it plays out for them the rest of the way.

round 1- Connacht vs Blues, Andrew McMenemy (SRU, 12th competition game)
round 2- Zebre v Connacht: Ian Davies (WRU, 2nd competition game)
round 3- Connacht v Scarlets: Neil Paterson (SRU, 43rd competition game)

round 4- Glasgow v Connacht: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 54th competition game)
round 5- Connacht v Leinster: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 41st competition game)
round 6- Ulster v Connacht: George Clancy (IRFU, 49th competition game)

round 7- Ospreys v Connacht: George Clancy (IRFU, 50th competition game)
round 8- Connacht v Treviso: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 21st competition game)
round 9- Dragons v Connacht: Giuseppe Vivarini (FIR, 4th competition game)

round 10- Connacht v Edinburgh: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 14th competition game)
round 11- Connacht v Munster: Dudley Phillips (IRFU, 26th competition game)

round 12- Leinster v Connacht: John Lacey (IRFU, 22nd competition game)
round 13- Connacht v Dragons: Andrew MacMenemy (SRU, 18th competition game)
round 14- Scarlets v Connacht: Matteo Liperini (FIR, 3rd competition game)

i thought it would be handy to have all our refs in one place rather then looking for them, hope you dont mind ummm, maybe one of us could update this every 3weeks or so.
keep up the good work.

Yup, all up to day including the weeks over christmas and new year

hey ummm, good work keep it up.

did you update the 2 rounds you missed?

ive followed this thread with interest from its inception(many thanks).

i notice today that glasgow are at very bottom of table but in 2nd place in lge proper but ulster are way out ahead in both tables. is there any standout explanation for this discrepancy in the stats?

Wotcher cocks.

Pro12 weekends are amongst us once more, which means a ref experience table update can never be far away. Big drop for Connacht, from 2nd to 5th in the table, and with the Pro12's policy of assigning inexperienced refs to teams with poor records after the christmas period then it looks like we're in for a slide. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen.

With the 6 Nations taking place all the good refs are on international duty, so we can expect the next few weeks to include some relatively inexperienced refs, and as luck would have it, we get the least experienced ref this week.

Scarlets v Connacht: Matteo Liperini (FIR, 3rd competition game)
Cardiff v Leinster: Peter Fitzgibbon ( IRFU, 44th competition game)
Ulster v Ospreys: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 15th competition game)
Munster v Edinburgh: Ian Davies (WRU, 8th competition game)
Dragons v Treviso: David Wilkinson (IRFU, 18th competition game)
Zebre v Glasgow: Andrew McMenemy (SRU, 19th competition game)

	Team	Average ref experience (in games)
1.	Ulster	39
2.	Ospreys	32
3.	Dragons	29
4.	Scarlets	26
5.	Connacht	25
6.	Munster	23
7.	Zebre	22
8.	Blues	21
	Leinster	21
10.	Edinburgh	16
11.	Treviso	16
12.	Glasgow	14