Fourdogs wrote: the 24 teams made up of 7 French, 6 English, 4 Irish, 3 Welsh, 2 Scottish and Italian.

We could end up with 2 French and an Italian sides in our pool.

Being 6 groups of 4, I think we are guaranteed 1 English and at least 1 French side. Looking forward to the away games already.

rossie wrote: irfu might not have any choice. Money dictates these things and bulk of media revenue is french and english based not to mention sponsorship. Its no good for french and english tv and other media to have an all ireland Hec final and the british clubs fully support the french on this matter.

They want the Pro12 clubs to adapt a league position Qualification system similar to their leagues and obviously a league of 12 teams having 10 Hec places doesnt go down well either. The 4 unions of the Pro12 are obviously against this as it could mean no italian or even scottish partication occasionally so a compromise is most likely.
Something along the lines of 1 guarenteed position per Union and other 4 or 6 places decided on league finishing position is the sort of likely outcome.
The english and french club owners are quite militant about this and are ultimately threaening another boycott or non participation unless changes are made.

Change to qualification rules in the Pro12 will stregthen the league and will give connacht a fighting chance of qualification in their own right each year.
In addition the Amlin will be a much stronger competition if Hec is reduced to 20 teams and Amlin remains a 20 team competition.

very good summary of the situation! And a "8 qualified in the league" rule is much more preferable for Connacht than "3 Irish max" I think..

Obviously delighted, it was a good weekend all round for Irish Rugby.

I'm looking forward to HC rugby next year. Really last year came at a bad time (if there is such a thing) in terms of on the pitch, the squad had been decimated and the new signings weren't going well and as a team we were still finding our shape. We did fairly well , winning 1 and being in with a shout in the closing stages of 3 other games but we should look a lot more settled heading into next season.

We have retained that squad again bar Ray Ofisa and Henry Fa'fili who'll have had the experience under their belt, add in Nathan White, Dan Parks, Willie Falloon and hopefully another signing or two and we're a much more solid outfit heading into next season. If Connacht can attract 4-5 k season ticket holders I'd imagine there'll be other sponsors wanting a piece of the action.

Being 3rd seed should be a help but it mightn't work out that way. Either way its great to have it to look forward to.

Sorry that shoud say english not british clubs

irfu might not have any choice. Money dictates these things and bulk of media revenue is french and english based not to mention sponsorship. Its no good for french and english tv and other media to have an all ireland Hec final and the british clubs fully support the french on this matter.

They want the Pro12 clubs to adapt a league position Qualification system similar to their leagues and obviously a league of 12 teams having 10 Hec places doesnt go down well either. The 4 unions of the Pro12 are obviously against this as it could mean no italian or even scottish partication occasionally so a compromise is most likely.
Something along the lines of 1 guarenteed position per Union and other 4 or 6 places decided on league finishing position is the sort of likely outcome.
The english and french club owners are quite militant about this and are ultimately threaening another boycott or non participation unless changes are made.

Change to qualification rules in the Pro12 will stregthen the league and will give connacht a fighting chance of qualification in their own right each year.
In addition the Amlin will be a much stronger competition if Hec is reduced to 20 teams and Amlin remains a 20 team competition.

It says the decision must be unanimous does anyone really see the IRFU giving there consent?

I really cant see how any of the sponsors will go for that.
The want the max amount of publicity as possible.

connachta wrote:

salmson wrote:

connachta wrote: HCup might be reduced to 20 clubs

Where did you hear that - that's never going to happen!

(1) Successful competitions bloat, not shrink - see Super Rugby, Soccer and Rugby WCs etc.
(2) Since the French clubs primary complaint is they're under-represented, they'll hardly want to cut the numbers (and by extension their own places).

I've heard whinging (on Sky) about how it should be 8 clubs from England, 8 from the Top 14 and 8 from the Rabo though, in which case your call to spend on players would be even more relevant.

No, really i'm sure about the 20 clubs, because it's an official decision of the LNR (translate national league of rugby)

here's an article in french, if you need the global meaning to be translated, just ask!

H Cup: Pour un passage à 20 clubs

Le Comité Directeur de la Ligue nationale (LNR), qui s'est achevé jeudi midi, a notamment été l'occasion d'un vote quasiment à l'unanimité -les représentants de la Fédération française (FFR) se sont abstenus- d'un plan de revalorisation de la Coupe d'Europe et du Challenge. Appelé à être soumis aux autres nations participantes, ce plan, sur lequel a planché un groupe de travail composé de présidents de clubs, préconise un passage du nombre de participants dans les deux compétitions à 20 clubs (contre 24 en Coupe d'Europe actuellement). Une réduction qu'assumerait la Ligue Celte (Celtes et italiens), dont le contingent passerait de dix qualifiés automatiques à la moitié. Réunissant toujours Anglais et Français, le Challenge accueillerait ces recalés de la Ligue Celte. Cette réforme passe par une dénonciation d'ici fin mai par la LNR, probablement appuyée par les clubs anglais, des accords de Paris, qui arrivent à échéance en 2014.

Google Translation for the non french speakers, article is on Rugbyrama.fr (online version of the excellent French rugby newspaper Midi-Olympique)

www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-d-europe/20...o3250037/story.shtml

Heineken Cup: France wants a move to 20 clubs

European rugby competitions could face a serious facelift. Indeed, representatives of French rugby are busy behind the scenes to reform it. This choice comes at a time when the two meet competitions unprecedented success including 50 million euros in turnover for the ERC and 1.1 million viewers earned during the group stage. The reform would address the current formula and the will of the NRL from 24 to 20 clubs in the Heineken Cup. Which would consequently an overhaul of the European Challenge Cup and a new financial distribution. This proposal would focus on " raising the level of both competitions and especially the European Challenge . "

A unanimity requirement ...

This reform, however, could not enter into force rapidly since the current format of European Cups is fixed until June 2014. The ERC will indeed within two years to implement new agreements to avoid crisis. And if no action is taken, the current agreements (which are from 2007) will be extended for another year.

Midi Olympique announced Friday that several meetings have taken place between representatives of French and English, which may suggest an agreement between both parties. But the Celts are not yet open to reform. And to change the formula of the Heineken Cup, the unanimous vote of the six nations is required. The beginning of a long consensus ...

Basically the Top French clubs, much like the English ones are angling to take greater control of the HEC under the guise of increasing revenue. If left to their own devices they will absolutely destroy it. Their problem is that the clubs do not have a sustainable model because they all rely heavily on private investment, the club owners of France & England are hell-bent on maximising short term revenue at the potential cost of the long term welfare and development of a truly trans-European competition.

Wait until all the real fun and games begin in 2014...

salmson wrote: Official "recommendation". It's their opening negotiating position that the Celtic Nations cough up one place each. That'd suit the French teams given that 3 of the QF places went to Irish teams and their teams can't buy a result against ours any more than our naional team could beat their's.

Yes it's a negotiation basis, but worringly 1) they are sustained by the english 2) they want to reduce at 5 or 6 the celtic league participants, and send the other in Challenge Cup... unbelievable...

Official "recommendation". It's their opening negotiating position that the Celtic Nations cough up one place each. That'd suit the French teams given that 3 of the QF places went to Irish teams and their teams can't buy a result against ours any more than our naional team could beat their's.

salmson wrote:

connachta wrote: HCup might be reduced to 20 clubs

Where did you hear that - that's never going to happen!

(1) Successful competitions bloat, not shrink - see Super Rugby, Soccer and Rugby WCs etc.
(2) Since the French clubs primary complaint is they're under-represented, they'll hardly want to cut the numbers (and by extension their own places).

I've heard whinging (on Sky) about how it should be 8 clubs from England, 8 from the Top 14 and 8 from the Rabo though, in which case your call to spend on players would be even more relevant.

No, really i'm sure about the 20 clubs, because it's an official decision of the LNR (translate national league of rugby)

here's an article in french, if you need the global meaning to be translated, just ask!

H Cup: Pour un passage à 20 clubs

Le Comité Directeur de la Ligue nationale (LNR), qui s'est achevé jeudi midi, a notamment été l'occasion d'un vote quasiment à l'unanimité -les représentants de la Fédération française (FFR) se sont abstenus- d'un plan de revalorisation de la Coupe d'Europe et du Challenge. Appelé à être soumis aux autres nations participantes, ce plan, sur lequel a planché un groupe de travail composé de présidents de clubs, préconise un passage du nombre de participants dans les deux compétitions à 20 clubs (contre 24 en Coupe d'Europe actuellement). Une réduction qu'assumerait la Ligue Celte (Celtes et italiens), dont le contingent passerait de dix qualifiés automatiques à la moitié. Réunissant toujours Anglais et Français, le Challenge accueillerait ces recalés de la Ligue Celte. Cette réforme passe par une dénonciation d'ici fin mai par la LNR, probablement appuyée par les clubs anglais, des accords de Paris, qui arrivent à échéance en 2014.

rossie wrote: what are the rules in that regard? could it be 3 french teams?

Biarritz, clermont auvergne, Montpellier?!

No. They try to keep nationalities apart, but with 7 French teams one group will have a second French team.

what are the rules in that regard? could it be 3 french teams?

Biarritz, clermont auvergne, Montpellier?!

Guys

I have made a number of assumptions here:

Leinster win HC, Biarritz win Amlin, English and Super 14 table stays as they currently stands.

Including the 2 Cup winners, the 24 teams made up of 7 French, 6 English, 4 Irish, 3 Welsh, 2 Scottish and Italian.

Here is how I think things will stack up for the 4 tiers at the end of the season

ERC Ranking points
1 Leinster Rugby 40
2 Toulouse 27
3 Biarritz Olympique 26
4 Munster Rugby 23
5 Cardiff Blues 20
6 Northampton Saints 20

7 ASM Clermont Auvergne 18
8 Leicester Tigers 17
9 Harlequins 17
10 Ulster Rugby 17
11 Toulon 15
12 Edinburgh Rugby 12

13 Ospreys 12
14 Scarlets 11
15 Glasgow Warriors 9
16 Saracens 8
17 Connacht Rugby 6
18 Sale Sharks 5

19 Benetton Treviso 4
20 Castres Olympique 4
21 Montpellier 3
22 Racing Métro 92 3
23 Exeter Chiefs 2
24 2nd Italian team 0

We could end up with 2 French and an Italian sides in our pool.

Ok THE IMF its a deal,
JJ, Borlase and Henry in exchange for Loughney on 2 year Loan deal. Munster dont need Wilko, They have Killer Kilcoyne coming tru and imo he will share loose head with Wian and Toasterhead, Horan and Ryan will back them up.

connachta wrote: HCup might be reduced to 20 clubs

Where did you hear that - that's never going to happen!

(1) Successful competitions bloat, not shrink - see Super Rugby, Soccer and Rugby WCs etc.
(2) Since the French clubs primary complaint is they're under-represented, they'll hardly want to cut the numbers (and by extension their own places).

I've heard whinging (on Sky) about how it should be 8 clubs from England, 8 from the Top 14 and 8 from the Rabo though, in which case your call to spend on players would be even more relevant.