Just seen on twitter Grace saying about johnny o'connor #theplayerthatplayswithabrokenface.
thought it was very good way to discribe him lol

clanclover,

I agree that our kickers are not practising enuf on this part of their game in training and the buck stops wit eric on this. Do we have a kicking coach? There is no mention of one on official website. One cud be forgiven for thinking that the home kicker was in blue the other nite so comfortable was nacewa.Did he ever kick here before? prob not and hes 3rd choice kicker in leinster.
He was prob told last mon that he was kicking against us and he worked hard at it all week. What were our lads doing? not practising kicking.

The drop goal attempt is another example of players not thinking on their feet and taking responsibility. We had excellent field position but prob too far out given conditions. The situation required the pack to take on responsibility and pick and go in twos on fringe of ruck and force them back another 10 yds to make opportunity easier. They werent commiting to rucks so opportunity was there but pack or scrum half never saw opportunity to do so or wudnt take on resp to do so.Hence we forced the situation and missed.

We are very predictable to defend against atm. Everytime we bring ball into ruck we move it left or right 10/15m to waiting ball carrier and repeat the process. This allows teams to spread out and que up to tackle. The garryowen has been our only variation on this and has had some success(particularly against Glouc at home).
Our pack is quite formidable when they get their gander up and we have a good lineout and reasonable scrum( wit loughney at th). We are an excellent mauling team on our day and they are all willing ball carriers so why wont they add pick and go at ruck time to their game. Has it been coached out of them? The scrum half should insure that these opportunities and not just go through the motions of flinging ball left and right.
Here like at 10 scrum half and pack must show more responsibilty and play whats in front of them. Nikora was unlucky but the opportunity shud have been easier. It has been mentioned here that they should have gone a few more phases before attempt was made. the way we currently play the game ball wud havve ended up on either touchline and away from posts if that happened.
Imo Nikora knew that and went for it as a result.

I see and recognise your points rossie. I will disagree on the Garryowen being an effective tactic for us as I believe we get less then 10 per cent of a return. On the kick off up the middle of the park with Duffy in pursuit or Mike I agree it does work but Bar the Quins game and I think the Ospreys we have not used it much this year. If we had a kicker the calibre of McHugh or Warwick we would be better suited even with Keats last year we lost games due to bad kicking. When you have a backline as fast with the mindset to counter attack like Gloucs you do not kick Garryowens. The Garryowen at Gloucs led eventually to the missed tackle. I totally agree about the switching off and laziness some of the players been lauded by the press are actually the biggest culprits and this was again very evident in the Gloucs game. EE picks the team he is the man sending Billy out giving the instructions during stoppages you see him talking on the Mike and you see Billy giving the player the instructions a guy of NOC's experience should as you quite rightly said know when and when not to follow instructions. What I would like to see the players themselves take ownership of what unfolds in front of them, blindside from the scrum/Ruck again on Sunday a glaring opportunity in the second half and we go where all the defenders are waiting. The thing about Galway is the weather is pretty rubbish all year around and the SG been on top of a hill gets it most. But this should be to our kickers advantage as he can train day in and day out in these conditions and should come match time know exactly what is required. When Toulon came to town Johhny Wilko spent two hours kicking goals the morning of the game, do our guys do that I wonder.

clanclover,

We lost most of those tight games (if not all) because we didnt have a player on the field with ability to kick goals (penalties and dgs) which hasnt changed even without noc.I agree its not good enuf)

Im not a fan of noc at 10 and have my own issues with ee as manager but u answer your own question/point when u correctly state that when garryowen was launched that team didnt bother to chase it. Thats not down to eric or noc but our back line who have been prone to switching off and being lazy on this issue all season. Therenappears to be a mental frailty within the group which accepts laziness/switching off on occasions within games. you mention one which is often repeated even at home.
U can go further in that game for the missed tackle. Jonny may is fastest player(and most dangerous) in gloucester squad. A fresh well prepped player shud recognise that and nail him on reciept of ball. flavs effort shows that he either didnt know who had ball and/ he had switched off. He was fresh off bench so there were no excuses.
Our games are littered with these type of errors but its very difficult to change this mindset mid season. Ultimately players who make these errors need to be punished by being dropped for a few but squad isnt strong enuf for that atm.
I STILL THINK WE CUD HAVE WON IN SPITE OF THIS WIT A DECENT KICKER.

The Garryowen its self has been a good tactic for us although i agree it is over used. It needs to be done in the right area of the pitch and the chase/hit has to be good. Sometimes noc uses it in wrong area(alot) and too many times chase isnt good enuf. That must be discussed before games and at half time but ee cant go out and make them do it so sometimes they dont.

The starting 10 and team are given game plan/tactics before game by management but its up to 10 to play whats in front of him and adapt to game. Noc has proven to be a poor 10 in this department.
The jury is still out on Jarvis, Heres hoping.

[quote="Packie" post=4242There is some amount of sh1t posted on this message board, but that takes the biscuit
"no right minded coach would request such a tactic..." The coach isn't on live-link to the outhalf FFS[/quote]

Your are entitled to your opinion as I am, and I take exception to your tone and use of the word Shit. You will of course remember the kicking the ball up in the air was a favourite tactic of EE in his playing days, you will also I am sure remember two seasons ago when we used the same tactic in away games where we used to kick away up to 70% of our own ball aimlessly up in the air off the first or second pass. You will I am sure have seen NOC play for Ulster and Ireland A where this was NOT a tactic he used on a regular basis or even an irregular basis. But you know all this already.

clan clover wrote: I agree with Breifne a half decent team would have won some of those games. We started to lose these tight games when we started messing with the team, at Leinster we subbed to many guys to early and lost all control of the game. We then decided to play guys out of position, its not that we were short of players, we would play an 8 in the second row, a second row at 6 and a 6 at 7 why would you do that its like sending your team out with one hand tied behind its back. The Gloucester game away was lost with bad management, at 73 mins we were winning we had the ball and we kicked it up in the air and did not bother our arse to chase it. No right minded coach would request such a tactic to be employed with such a slender lead, the opposition cannot score from there half especially if they don't have the ball, its all game management and its not that we have to make it up Leinster and Munster have been doing it for years. We shipped to many players in the summer, Niva, McComish were two guys we could have and should have held onto. But we have what we have, we don't use what we have but the players are there at the SG and they give 110% they are badly led and badly managed but the heart is there for all us to see. And I for one would like them to take control themselves as a team as mates and run the game the way see it developing and that means you need a voice in the pack and in the backs and feck the negative one dimensional tactics from the chaps on the sidelines.

There is some amount of sh1t posted on this message board, but that takes the biscuit
"no right minded coach would request such a tactic..." The coach isn't on live-link to the outhalf FFS

I agree with Breifne a half decent team would have won some of those games. We started to lose these tight games when we started messing with the team, at Leinster we subbed to many guys to early and lost all control of the game. We then decided to play guys out of position, its not that we were short of players, we would play an 8 in the second row, a second row at 6 and a 6 at 7 why would you do that its like sending your team out with one hand tied behind its back. The Gloucester game away was lost with bad management, at 73 mins we were winning we had the ball and we kicked it up in the air and did not bother our arse to chase it. No right minded coach would request such a tactic to be employed with such a slender lead, the opposition cannot score from there half especially if they don't have the ball, its all game management and its not that we have to make it up Leinster and Munster have been doing it for years. We shipped to many players in the summer, Niva, McComish were two guys we could have and should have held onto. But we have what we have, we don't use what we have but the players are there at the SG and they give 110% they are badly led and badly managed but the heart is there for all us to see. And I for one would like them to take control themselves as a team as mates and run the game the way see it developing and that means you need a voice in the pack and in the backs and feck the negative one dimensional tactics from the chaps on the sidelines.

Yeah...I keep hearing a lot of "ifs"...if this, if that, etc. I hear what you're saying, but there's no use sugar-coating a 12-game losing skid, guys. In my experience, decent teams find a way to win at least SOME of these games.

We're just really, really bad at this point. We're all hoping that will change sooner rather than later, but I just don't see a lot of use in denying reality. I doubt anyone here will stop supporting this team, but the occasional win sure would be nice.

Just my thoughts.

in fairness breifne we lost two games to gloucester because of our failure to convert penos snd dg opps. Actually that has been the main prob n most games along with conceding penos at scrum time mainly when rodney is on. Even away to gloucester noc missed a few vital ones which wud have seen us home. We are a consistant kicker away from being a decent team. loughs at th backed up by rodgers, jarvis at 10 and someone else to kick goals.

Diom can tonetti goalkick? if he can give 12 jersey and let him at it. played well the other night anyway.

Diom wrote: In fairness Breifne, in the HEC we are playing well. Only the Toulouse game seemed to get on top of the lads. We are just not able to finish games out.

Well, that's why I used the term "debatable." My definition of "holding one's own" would include winning at least one out of six games. I know we have two games left, but neither one of those looks winnable at this point. And yes, I know we're new at the whole HEC thing, but that just goes back to "holding our own." I just wouldn't use that language to describe our performance thus far. I'd say more like "showing glimpses," or something like that.

Just a difference of opinion on terminology, I suppose.

In fairness Breifne, in the HEC we are playing well. Only the Toulouse game seemed to get on top of the lads. We are just not able to finish games out.

For the DG for example there is no reason we could not have gotten another 5 meters up that pitch. Leinster were standing off the rucks afraid of giving penos away, and we just needed some calm clear heads to take control. Miah has gotten those before, and it looked like he slipped but there is no need to make it harder than it needs to be.

As for our number 10... I said it at the start of the season that Jarvis looks like a fantastic player, and it seems that it is a total lack of faith in him that is going to prevent that from happening. He needs to work on his place-kicking, but we have Tonetti and Duffy on the pitch with him while that gets sorted. His hands and speed are just a level above NOCs and he is worth investing the effort.
Murphy at 9. Jarvis at 10 with Nikora as backup. NOC really has had a great chance to cement that place, but just hasn't shown the form he needs to do that.

eastcoastconnacht wrote: ...we are competing in the H Cup and holding or own.

That's certainly debatable... :dry:

_nobody_ wrote:

Edward Eagle wrote: Didn't know how to react after the match, they are giving 100%, all we can do is stick together and keep supporting, it is obvious we need a reliable kicker but who? might a point be that with the huge turnover of players that they are taking "this season" to gel and the time to judge is next season?

I mentioned in another thread but could we try Gav. I remember him kicking for Galwegians when he first joined them. He was also an Irish Schools out half. If we had Jarvis ability with ball in hand on the field in ten then Gav could take responsibility for kicks.

Just an idea

was thinking that myself, as captain he could really step up to the plate, he probably wants to let the younger outhalfs do the kicking and focus on his own game. Can remember him doing kicking coaching at U20's level a good few years back. Tom Homer is a great example at the moment of a kicker outside of 10 making the kicks and winning needed games

Edward Eagle wrote: Didn't know how to react after the match, they are giving 100%, all we can do is stick together and keep supporting, it is obvious we need a reliable kicker but who? might a point be that with the huge turnover of players that they are taking "this season" to gel and the time to judge is next season?

I mentioned in another thread but could we try Gav. I remember him kicking for Galwegians when he first joined them. He was also an Irish Schools out half. If we had Jarvis ability with ball in hand on the field in ten then Gav could take responsibility for kicks.

Just an idea

Have to agree with you, hard to take in 14 new players, lose 4 starters and hit the ground running, plus we are on an awful run of injuries at the moment. Lets not forget that we are the same points as we were this time last year more or less plus we are competing in the H Cup and holding or own. Good times are ahead.

Didn't know how to react after the match, they are giving 100%, all we can do is stick together and keep supporting, it is obvious we need a reliable kicker but who? might a point be that with the huge turnover of players that they are taking "this season" to gel and the time to judge is next season?