Selection dilemma at second row is a good thing for us. Thornbury looked good the other night.

Just listened to the Craggy Island podcast, thought they hit the nail on the head in a number of ways. I’m happy they gave Thornbury a shoutout, thought he had a very good game. I think there’s a bit of a dilemma in terms of selection in the second row for the Gloucester game.

They def do get demoted but due to logistics (flights etc) they may be left in place for a few weeks until the next round of appointments are made so it may appear that nothing has happened when in fact the wheels are turning in the background.

The other thing is unless youre a bit weird like myself you may not notice the subtle changes in where refs are appointed and what competitions they are in.

Its interesting to see people stating whether or not a ref is good or bad and yet they might never have read the law book in their lives.

A lot of it is about perception and communication, some are great communicators and we as supporters think they are great because we know whats going on, others get the correct decision 99% of the time but dont communicate very well and come across as a poor ref as a result.

Remember the Changleng Sisters!

MulMan wrote: Just on the subject of refs, it's seems harder for bad referees to get out of the game than get into it, guys like Whitehouse, Ian Davies and Poite seem to be performing poor more often than not, so to say poor performances will result in them moving down the pecking order is blatantly not true.

More good news! Our referee for Saturday.

Fitzgibbion is a TMO now as is Patterson the Scottish ref. Wouldn't fill you with confidence

MulMan wrote: Just on the subject of refs, it's seems harder for bad referees to get out of the game than get into it, guys like Whitehouse, Ian Davies and Poite seem to be performing poor more often than not, so to say poor performances will result in them moving down the pecking order is blatantly not true. Once they reach a certain level they seem to stay there until retirement. I understand that the number of referees isn't very numerous and replacing every poor ref isn't an option but some of these guys are actually moving up the ladder rather than down; that being said having watched from at home I thought Clancy did a good job and generally isn't the worst ref out there, we let ourselves down by booing him off, but Pro14 rugby and World rugby for that matter have a lot to answer for regarding the standard of officiating, it can't be possible to only have 2 or 3 guys in the world that are of a good standard and the rest useless they obviously aren't looking hard enough (I'm sure Ben Whitehouse's last name had a lot to play with him moving up the ladder for instance).

But in reality we did beat ourselves on the day, and to blame the ref is wrong, however, they sure as hell should be in for criticism they have serious power and there has to be an onus to perform for them. Onward and upward to next week when hopefully Connacht and a certain French official can right the wrongs of 2015 among other occasions.

All the worst refs are gone; Hodges, Davies, Fitzgibbon etc. Rugby is an extremely hard game to referee, if only a handful of people in the entire world are up to your standard then maybe the expectation is unrealistic.

Borders no.2 wrote:

Shelflife wrote: Just as a point of information and to correct some details.

Clancy is a full time professional referee.

On Monday his game will be analysed in the same way as the professional players games.

If he has a run of poor games he too will be dropped and his contract wont be renewed.

The competition at that level is extremely high and very cut throat. Each pro14 weekend there will be 7 games so only 21 refs will be appointed and clearly only 7 refs. on the other hand there will be 322 players involved on match days.

Refs are similar to players , we want to play at the highest level we can and to stay at that level for as long as we can. We want to play in finals and the competition to get those finals even at my level is fierce.

So to be clear , the refs are scrutinised and evaluated in detail on every performance at this level. If they dont perform they will be dropped to a lower level. if they dont meet the required standard they will lose their jobs

As a matter of interest how many full time refs are there. I was sure I heard that George Clancy worked as a tax official and an interview on the Pro 14 website would appear to confirm this?

7 Professional Irish refs since October
www.irishrugby.ie/news/40728.php#.Wrn8cYjwY2w

Just on the subject of refs, it's seems harder for bad referees to get out of the game than get into it, guys like Whitehouse, Ian Davies and Poite seem to be performing poor more often than not, so to say poor performances will result in them moving down the pecking order is blatantly not true. Once they reach a certain level they seem to stay there until retirement. I understand that the number of referees isn't very numerous and replacing every poor ref isn't an option but some of these guys are actually moving up the ladder rather than down; that being said having watched from at home I thought Clancy did a good job and generally isn't the worst ref out there, we let ourselves down by booing him off, but Pro14 rugby and World rugby for that matter have a lot to answer for regarding the standard of officiating, it can't be possible to only have 2 or 3 guys in the world that are of a good standard and the rest useless they obviously aren't looking hard enough (I'm sure Ben Whitehouse's last name had a lot to play with him moving up the ladder for instance).

But in reality we did beat ourselves on the day, and to blame the ref is wrong, however, they sure as hell should be in for criticism they have serious power and there has to be an onus to perform for them. Onward and upward to next week when hopefully Connacht and a certain French official can right the wrongs of 2015 among other occasions.

Shelflife wrote: Just as a point of information and to correct some details.

Clancy is a full time professional referee.

On Monday his game will be analysed in the same way as the professional players games.

If he has a run of poor games he too will be dropped and his contract wont be renewed.

The competition at that level is extremely high and very cut throat. Each pro14 weekend there will be 7 games so only 21 refs will be appointed and clearly only 7 refs. on the other hand there will be 322 players involved on match days.

Refs are similar to players , we want to play at the highest level we can and to stay at that level for as long as we can. We want to play in finals and the competition to get those finals even at my level is fierce.

So to be clear , the refs are scrutinised and evaluated in detail on every performance at this level. If they dont perform they will be dropped to a lower level. if they dont meet the required standard they will lose their jobs

As a matter of interest how many full time refs are there. I was sure I heard that George Clancy worked as a tax official and an interview on the Pro 14 website would appear to confirm this?

Agree entirely with Roadrunner on the first try. TOH's initial error compounded by Blade and Carty ballwatching as the ball crossed the line for Fife to pounce. I agree too on RR's point on the unnecessary substitutions. This was a must-win game FFS!

The first try was a debacle but it wasn't completely Tiernan's fault if you watch it again he has to take an extra half step when Denis Buckley cuts across his line just giving enough time for Edinburgh to get the block in.

There's been enough player and ref bashing done now . Time to move on and focus on next week .

I'm absolutely amazed the the whole focus on Friday's debacle is on the perceived bad performance of the referee. I was at the game and I thought he had a reasonably good game but I've always found that what you perceive to be incorrect calls by officials when you're at the game usually look totally different when you watch it back on T.V. with the benefit of multiple camera angles, replays and slow motion.
After our recent performances and seeing the way Edinburgh had been playing, I went to this game in the belief that we wouldn't even get a loosing bonus point and after 10 seconds it seemed my worst fears were going to be surpassed. Take a look at the clip below and judge for yourselves the performance of certain players in Edinburgh's first try, It was a complete shambles. Tiernan's attempted clearance was madness given the proximity of the opposition's chasers. Had he taken it into contact, the support was there to form a ruck and use pillars to prevent the block down. Even after it was blocked down, Tiernan made absolutely no effort to get back and rectify his mistake. And Blade and Carty were closer to the ball than any Edinburgh player when it crossed the dead ball line but the chose to jog back nonchalantly almost as if it wasn't their responsibility. Either or both player could and should have beaten the Edinburgh winger to the ball. This smacks of a terrible attitude and lack of basic communication.



After this the team rallied and played some really good rugby offensively and scored 3 really good tries. Despite some of the usual defensive frailties and indiscipline leading to some really stupid penalties, the game was won for Connacht. All they had to do was keep their heads and play out the remainder of the game and happy days, 4 lovely league points. But then KK decides to take off Carty who'd been having a really good game up to that point and bring on Craig, a guy who whether or not you believe he can play at 10 (I don't, and I've never seen any evidence to suggest he can) is obviously devoid of any self confidence after his recent outings at 10 (Zebre at home being his last game at 10). This was an unbelievably bad coaching decision and the responsibility for this loss lies mainly at the door of the coaches. An outhalf replaced by a centre, a centre replaced by a fulback/winger. Why weren't Crosbie or Ahki considered for the bench. George Clancy was the least of our problems on Friday night.

Just as a point of information and to correct some details.

Clancy is a full time professional referee.

On Monday his game will be analysed in the same way as the professional players games.

If he has a run of poor games he too will be dropped and his contract wont be renewed.

The competition at that level is extremely high and very cut throat. Each pro14 weekend there will be 7 games so only 21 refs will be appointed and clearly only 7 refs. on the other hand there will be 322 players involved on match days.

Refs are similar to players , we want to play at the highest level we can and to stay at that level for as long as we can. We want to play in finals and the competition to get those finals even at my level is fierce.

So to be clear , the refs are scrutinised and evaluated in detail on every performance at this level. If they dont perform they will be dropped to a lower level. if they dont meet the required standard they will lose their jobs

Crap referee but we beat ourselves. Never adapted to the way Clancy always referees us. Poor handling and poor positioning in defense really let the team down. Combine that with the substitution policy and you are left wondering about the coaching? I’ll be full of hope by next Saturday but we were so disorganized at times that Gloucester will expect to cruise into the semis.