...except no judgement days, the playoff system is the Top 14 barrage-like one, and no playoffs for Champions Cup places.

Speaking of which - are the North Americans in or out of the Champions/Challenge Cup? And if so do we have to guarantee one or both places?

Lot of detail missing but if the money's there it'll happen.

connachta wrote: Prospective



7 HOME GAMES 7 AWAY GAMES 2 JUDGEMENT DAYS for each team

Judgement days are 2 additional games between the team from a same nation/area
For WELSH AND IRISH teams, the 2 oppositions are decided by draws and take place on neutral ground (Lansdowne+Millenium)

Play off DAY 1 (1st team home)

1) Winner Pool A vs Runner-up Pool B
2) Winner Pool B vs Runner-up Pool A
3) 3rd Pool A vs 6th Pool B
4) 3rd Pool B vs 6th Pool A
5) 4th Pool A vs 5th Pool B
6) 4th Pool B vs 5th Pool A

Play Off Day 2 (Neutral Grounds)

7) FINAL - Winner match 1 vs Winner match 2
8 ) First European Qualification game : Winner match 3 vs Winner match 6
9) Second European Qualification game : Winner match 4 vs Winner match 5

16 to 18 games a year, teams fresh for Europe and International Rugby

Can't believe how close I was with my two pools and play-off.
Dream comes true

Completely agree! Second round is on me.

this could be another way for them to gauge interest in the NY/NJ area if they were planning on the potential US team splitting time between NY/Houston. Also, if anyone here heads over for this match then first beer is on me.

www.usarugby.org/2017/02/mens-eeagles-to...summer-series-match/

Sounds like this is actually a serious proposal so ...
www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/guinn...-expansion-1-4370290
2018/19 seems fairly ambitious.

USA Rugby Chairman Bob Latham seems pretty interested in looking further into this idea.

www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issue...chises/US-Pro12.aspx

I live a 20 min train ride from Red Bull Arena so I'd back that as an expansion site in any way possible...unfortunately RBA, as well as the other options mentioned, are just not realistic in the beginning. The attendance figures for PRO Rugby are scary low and I doubt that putting a team in a league where the competition is all across the Atlantic would draw a lot more fans. Keeping with RBA; it has a capacity of 25,000+, the average attendance for the PRO league is 1,811* and I have a feeling that includes a little rounding up on the weekly numbers. It would look as bad as Edinburgh home crowds at Murrayfield.

Also, and probably more important than any site issues or weather concerns, USA Rugby would have to sanction any team playing in the US- unfortunately USA Rugby is already buddy-buddy with the RFU and I'm guessing the RFU would do their best to convince USA Rugby not to sanction a Pro12 team since they're trying to get their hands on any of the money that the US market has to offer.

Honestly, no one can be rooting for expansion to the US to happen more than me..but I don't think there is ANY chance of it happening...which is why I keep flying over to you guys to watch.



*I'm trusting Wiki for my attendance numbers- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_PRO_Rugby_season

Moy wrote: Winters in Boston are awful, not Siberia awful, but you can't put a team in Boston and expect them to play outdoors every other week from Sept-May and I doubt they would build a dome for an expansion rugby team. Also, Pro Rugby looked into teams for Boston, NY, Philly and other places in the Northeast but couldn't secure any fields that were up to World Rugby standards.

Yes, you'd be foolish to schedule any games in the Northeast US in January & February and would need to tread lightly in early March and maybe late December but between ECC and the 6 Nations it would probably just require a run of 4 or 5 away games during the height of winter to avoid the worst of the weather. If the money is there then a stadium could be found. The new pro league is on tight margins so it's more likely the couldn't find a field up to World Rugby standards that they could afford. Can't imagine the pitches of the NY Red Bulls & Philadelphia Union aren't up to standards and likewise any place NYCFC ends up would be and they've played US Eagles games at Rentschler Field in Hartford, CT.

Prospective

POOL A

4 IRISH PROVINCES
2 SCOTTISH
2 EASTERNERS (from Georgia/Russia/Roumania)

POOL B

4 WELSH
2 LONDONIANS
2 ITALIANS

7 HOME GAMES 7 AWAY GAMES 2 JUDGEMENT DAYS for each team

Judgement days are 2 additional games between the team from a same nation/area
For WELSH AND IRISH teams, the 2 oppositions are decided by draws and take place on neutral ground (Lansdowne+Millenium)

Play off DAY 1 (1st team home)

1) Winner Pool A vs Runner-up Pool B
2) Winner Pool B vs Runner-up Pool A
3) 3rd Pool A vs 6th Pool B
4) 3rd Pool B vs 6th Pool A
5) 4th Pool A vs 5th Pool B
6) 4th Pool B vs 5th Pool A

Play Off Day 2 (Neutral Grounds)

7) FINAL - Winner match 1 vs Winner match 2
8 ) First European Qualification game : Winner match 3 vs Winner match 6
9) Second European Qualification game : Winner match 4 vs Winner match 5

16 to 18 games a year, teams fresh for Europe and International Rugby
8 interpros in Ireland and Wales - 4 Derbies in London, Eastearn Europe, Italy, and Scotland (At least, could be 1 more in the last play off day)
+ Welsh teams satisfied to play against English teams

Why not 2 pools of 8 + Play off : semi-finals, and games 3-4-5-6 for each pool from European qualification 3rd pool A vs 6th Pool B etc.

Pro 12 + London Scottish Irish and Welsh + Georgian "Jaguares-like" franchise.

If London Irish just want Premiership comeback and relegation again, than 1 Spanish or Roumanian...or 3rd Scottish Province

For me, expansion into Europe is the way forward if you are going to do it. Looking at the Euro Nations Cup (Six Nations B effectively) - the 2 countries where new teams could be set up would be Georgia and Romania, Spain is also a viable idea. It looks likely that Georgia will get some sort of a shot at the 6N going forward.

The likes of London Welsh/Scottish would not add to the league for me. An additional side in Scotland - is there the money and the interest? Are enough quality players for 3 sides? I reckon the Scots have it spot on at the minute.

I can't see the point in expansion for its own sake, and as others have pointed out, there's not much interest in USA, add in a long flight out and back and the effect that'll have on increased player fatigue and travel costs it doesn't seem feasible.
European expansion would make more sense, but would that just be adding in new whipping boys? I haven't seen anything about how new teams would earn their places.
Pro12 teams currently have 28-33 matches/year, it's alright for the French to have a bigger league, their clubs have the budgets to pay big enough squads for rotation, pro12 teams only have a fraction of that money.

I know I'm being very negative, but I think the Pro12 could improve commercially without changing teams/number of teams. Avoiding scheduling clashes for teams from the same country would be a nice start.

the problem with a 3rd pro team in Scotland is the north might have the money but would struggle getting crowds and the Borders part doesn't have the money but might get the crowds (club rugby and 7s is massive).

Doubt the SFA would move out of Hampden, soccer in murrayfield has been tried a few times (Hearts played some european games and both hearts and hibs played barcelona in friendlies, and with 40k+ the atmosphere was poor). There's twice as many people living in Glasgow than Edinburgh too so that'd another reason they'd stay that side of the country.

Back to expanding the Pro 12 though, would 2nd division teams from England and France be an option? The obvious downside would be the RFU and FRU might try to restructure the league similar to what they done with the Heineken/Amlin cups

kermis wrote:
Since when has Hampden been going anywhere??

SFA lease on Hampden is up in 2020 and they want out. They don't own Hampden so there is no incentive for them to invest what they'd need to in order for it to be fit for purpose.

salmson wrote: The BT deal was supposed to write off the Murrayfield debt, then they were offering Murrayfield to the Scottish FA as a replacement for Hampden as a means to erase it. The whole idea of expansion seems hamstrung by the SRU's indebtedness (only around GBP 10 million, sure Munster are in a bigger hole than that on their own), I suspect the real issue is they would struggle to staff 4 teams.

Since when has Hampden been going anywhere??

The simple problem is the SRU cannot afford a 3rd pro team. It's not a secret they would like one but there simply isn't the appetite, facilities, staff, players or sponsors for one.

Saw the Eagles beast Germany in a friendly (season before last I think). I'd say most AIL teams in the top 2 divisions would take them with something to spare.

There are 4 natural provinces in Scotland that formed the "original" pro sides - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Borders, and Caledonian - and their underage teams are still organised along these lines.

The BT deal was supposed to write off the Murrayfield debt, then they were offering Murrayfield to the Scottish FA as a replacement for Hampden as a means to erase it. The whole idea of expansion seems hamstrung by the SRU's indebtedness (only around GBP 10 million, sure Munster are in a bigger hole than that on their own), I suspect the real issue is they would struggle to staff 4 teams.