salmson wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote: Being honest, getting to the quarters of the Challenge Cup is only of use to us if we get a home quarter final.

Home advantage isn't as important as you'd think - for the current format (only last years) 1 QF was won by away side and 2 more were 1 score games (the years before 2 or 3 were typically won by the away sides, but as these had dropped from the HEC I think we can discount that).

More importantly the rules of the draw have changed so that if away teams win their QF they will be more likely to have home advantage in the semis, so in terms of winning the thing outright seedings are less important than they were. Same applies to not-HEC. Hate to give credit to Lonely-Bloke-In-Neuchatel but this is a well-thought out rule change.

www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychallengecup/rules.php

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:

Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1) Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3) Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

NB The new format for the semi-final matches in the Challenge Cup recognises performances by clubs during the pool stages as well as the achievement of a winning a quarter-final match away from home.

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, but the following clubs will have home venue advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 8 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home venue advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 7 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

Going by this you do not want to be ranked 3rd or 4th. You get the home quarterfinal but there is no route to a home semi-final whereas if 5th & 6th win they are guaranteed a home semi.

salmson wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote: Being honest, getting to the quarters of the Challenge Cup is only of use to us if we get a home quarter final.

Home advantage isn't as important as you'd think - for the current format (only last years) 1 QF was won by away side and 2 more were 1 score games (the years before 2 or 3 were typically won by the away sides, but as these had dropped from the HEC I think we can discount that).

More importantly the rules of the draw have changed so that if away teams win their QF they will be more likely to have home advantage in the semis, so in terms of winning the thing outright seedings are less important than they were. Same applies to not-HEC. Hate to give credit to Lonely-Bloke-In-Neuchatel but this is a well-thought out rule change.

www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychallengecup/rules.php

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:

Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1) Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3) Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

NB The new format for the semi-final matches in the Challenge Cup recognises performances by clubs during the pool stages as well as the achievement of a winning a quarter-final match away from home.

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, but the following clubs will have home venue advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 8 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home venue advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 7 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

Whatever you think it's once more an anti-Connacht rule. We may be top of our pool, but haven't enough squad depth to be top 2 of all the groups. It's a guarenteed away S-f. EPRC was created to hate and put aside of HCup any mid-table small-budget-small stadium clubs, and do the job...

Coda to the Edinburgh game; Fraser Mackenzie got 2 weeks for his high tackle at the end of the game:

www.scrummagazine.com/2015/11/04/fraser-...to-miss-two-matches/

Borders no.2 wrote: Being honest, getting to the quarters of the Challenge Cup is only of use to us if we get a home quarter final.

Home advantage isn't as important as you'd think - for the current format (only last years) 1 QF was won by away side and 2 more were 1 score games (the years before 2 or 3 were typically won by the away sides, but as these had dropped from the HEC I think we can discount that).

More importantly the rules of the draw have changed so that if away teams win their QF they will be more likely to have home advantage in the semis, so in terms of winning the thing outright seedings are less important than they were. Same applies to not-HEC. Hate to give credit to Lonely-Bloke-In-Neuchatel but this is a well-thought out rule change.

www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychallengecup/rules.php

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:

Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1) Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3) Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

NB The new format for the semi-final matches in the Challenge Cup recognises performances by clubs during the pool stages as well as the achievement of a winning a quarter-final match away from home.

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, but the following clubs will have home venue advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 8 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home venue advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 7 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home venue advantage

Being honest, getting to the quarters of the Challenge Cup is only of use to us if we get a home quarter final. Scraping through as 7th or 8th seed and facing someone like Gloucester or Harlequins away is of little value to us this season. Last season we could throw a mix and match team out away to Bayonne and even if we lost it wasn't overly important in the context of our season.

The argument last season was qualification v a chance for a trophy. This year we have no-one of the quality of Exeter Chiefs in our group. We have two avenues of qualification and this group is about as kind as we could have hoped for and is a massive opportunity to finish as one of the top seeds similar to the year we got to the semi-final in Bradley's last season. I think we should be looking to win the group and secure a home quarter final. We'll probably get away with rotation in some games but we've got to go with our best team or close to it for the likes of Newcastle away.

mary hinge wrote: +1 Evil G.
And now we have Phatguerilla proposing throwing one of the two competitions we play in this season. Ridiculous!

Strong sensationalism. We played the eagles for a number of European games last season and got to the quarters before being knocked out with the first team. This years group is objectively weaker, there is no reason the Eagles wouldn't get us to the quarters this year, meaning we're exactly as well off as last season.

clanman wrote:

Evil_g wrote:

connachta wrote:

Evil_g wrote: Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

I've never said that. But the risk is lower when they rest. And even if they're not injured, they can also be out of breath.
My colors have shown the games in which I want ALL our best available players involded. The rest in red are opportunities, not obligation, to give a few of them a break (rotation)

So a list of games that would be nice to win and a proposal to rotate the squad. Someone should get this to Pat.

Also. Tell him that he should have written off the game in Swansea two weeks ago.

The Ospreys game was always going to be a game we had a great chance to pick up points, I don't think anyone suggested resting players for that game

Yeah, well if no one was suggesting resting players away to the Ospreys during the World Cup, I don't know why anyone would suggest resting players (in excess of normal rotation) away to Dragons and Edinburgh during the Six Nations.

Evil_g wrote:

connachta wrote:

Evil_g wrote: Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

I've never said that. But the risk is lower when they rest. And even if they're not injured, they can also be out of breath.
My colors have shown the games in which I want ALL our best available players involded. The rest in red are opportunities, not obligation, to give a few of them a break (rotation)

So a list of games that would be nice to win and a proposal to rotate the squad. Someone should get this to Pat.

Also. Tell him that he should have written off the game in Swansea two weeks ago.

The Ospreys game was always going to be a game we had a great chance to pick up points, I don't think anyone suggested resting players for that game

+1 Evil G.
And now we have Phatguerilla proposing throwing one of the two competitions we play in this season. Ridiculous!

Evil_g wrote:

connachta wrote:

Evil_g wrote: Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

I've never said that. But the risk is lower when they rest. And even if they're not injured, they can also be out of breath.
My colors have shown the games in which I want ALL our best available players involded. The rest in red are opportunities, not obligation, to give a few of them a break (rotation)

So a list of games that would be nice to win and a proposal to rotate the squad. Someone should get this to Pat.

Also. Tell him that he should have written off the game in Swansea two weeks ago.

Certainly not, RWC players were off/benched
And you can make fun of, but it does limit the possibilities of rotations to 5 games max, and shows how hard and decisive the end of March-April-May will be, making the rest-time before even more meaningful.

connachta wrote:

Evil_g wrote: Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

I've never said that. But the risk is lower when they rest. And even if they're not injured, they can also be out of breath.
My colors have shown the games in which I want ALL our best available players involded. The rest in red are opportunities, not obligation, to give a few of them a break (rotation)

So a list of games that would be nice to win and a proposal to rotate the squad. Someone should get this to Pat.

Also. Tell him that he should have written off the game in Swansea two weeks ago.

Evil_g wrote: Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

I've never said that. But the risk is lower when they rest. And even if they're not injured, they can also be out of breath.
My colors have shown the games in which I want ALL our best available players involded. The rest in red are opportunities, not obligation, to give a few of them a break (rotation)

Please stop this nonsense. Throwing games doesn't stop injuries happening.

Let's project after Challenge Cup
In green the games I would target, playing absolutely McCartney, Muldowney, Masterson, Heenan, Nepia and Aki (our main leaders IMO, I don't talk about Henshaw/White who both depend on "Ireland's call")

Sat 28 Nov 17:15
Munster Rugby v Connacht Rugby Thomond Park Sky Munster may be tired, I took your point into account

December 2015
Fri 4 Dec 19:05
Cardiff Blues v Connacht Rugby BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park BBCW/TG4
Sat 26 Dec 18:00
Connacht Rugby v Ulster Rugby Sportsground TG4/BBCNI

January 2016
Fri 1 Jan 17:00
Leinster Rugby v Connacht Rugby RDS Arena TG4
Sun 10 Jan 14:30
Scarlets v Connacht Rugby Parc y Scarlets S4C/TG4
29/30/31 Jan
Connacht Rugby v Scarlets Sportsground

February 2016
12/13/14 Feb
Newport Gwent Dragons v Connacht Rugby Rodney Parade
19/20/21 Feb
Zebre Rugby v Connacht Rugby Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi
26/27/28 Feb
Connacht Rugby v Ospreys Sportsground

March 2016
4/5/6 Mar
Edinburgh Rugby v Connacht Rugby BT Murrayfield

25/26/27 Mar
Connacht Rugby v Leinster Rugby Sportsground

April 2016
1/2/3 Apr
Ulster Rugby v Connacht Rugby Kingspan Stadium
15/16/17 Apr
Connacht Rugby v Munster Rugby Sportsground
29/30 Apr, 1 May
Benetton Treviso v Connacht Rugby Stadio Monigo

May 2016
6/7/8 May
Connacht Rugby v Glasgow Warriors Sportsground

You may notice it's 10 games minimum for them. If they're able to play more than those, ok. But what I want is having most of them fit and fresh for the 3 decisive games in the end. Not exactly what happened last spring

The eagles should play all away European games and the home games should have a high percentage of eagles players in them - that would take care of a great deal of rotation straight away. Based on last season there's no reason why they wouldn't be competitive in the challenge cup.

Lam probably wouldn't admit it openly but I think there's already been an element of rotation in the squad in preparation for the 16 week term, Muldowney for one has not started as many games as one might expect, and there are other players that have either not featured or have only had cameos that should be expected to play 2-5 games at least in the current run of fixtures, along with the return of injured and world cup players to freshen things up as things progress.

I'm suprised no-one has mentioned the Munster away game as a real possibility of us winning, Munster have 2 tough away games in the next 3 weeks, in fact they have a short turn around time going into our game, with injuries to key Munster players and the likelyhood they will rest a few players after the european games then we have to be looking at least a bonus point or more.

we have to be looking at winning away in one of the interprovincials and I don't rate our chances at Leinster or Ulster.

also for our run of games i'd be suprised if Brive showed any less disdain than other top14 teams that have visited the sportsground in the last few years. we should be in good health come the Munster game, and yes this is targetting, lol or is is it rotation