Dragons have just beaten blues away which is a big result for connacht. LBP will be unexpected bonus now.

Connacht and Ulster attendances are at an all time high. Leinster figures are a tiny bit down but still the highest in the league and one of the highest in Europe. Granted Munster are in a hole, but they've been dealt a terrible hand by circumstance. We're 6 months into a four year deal on the pro12 and so far the product looks good. The supposed worst case scenario - France walk away from European competition in 2018 - would only make the provinces invaluable to the English clubs. I don't buy the doom laden scenarios.

Without a viable pro12 where will these players that the irfu fund play? Only 23 players can tog out for ireland in any fixture. Same applies to the Heineken cup. The irfu are playing a very shortsighted game here. They simply must look after the customer of all aspects of pro rugby or they will lose them. The vast majority of Welsh Rugby supporters would abandon the pro12 in the morning in favour of an Anglo Welsh league. The ceo of the wru is on record as saying that trying to deal with the irfu when it comes to the pro12 and change is extremely difficult. People say that PRL wouldn't touch the Welsh regions without the provinces as part of a package as we bring the competition and with it the money but we currently come with significant baggage.Imo there is no way the PRL would entertain the provinces under our current player release policy.
You have to respect the competitions you enter and your audience. Wales play in the same international competitions we do and the wru contribute 9m a year directly to their regions. The 23m mentioned above includes tv money generated from club competitions afaik so if you add that it RRW will receive 18m sterling this season from wru. Their players play in the interpros.
This league cannot survive with the irfu s current attitude towards it. People are voting with their feet.

All 20 centrally contracted players, the coaches, the full academy costs, and approximately the first 3 million of each province's player wage bill is paid directly by the IRFU, as of last year's accounts. The total is about 23 million a year. Leinster would certainly be a viable if reduced entity, possibly Ulster, but endebted Munster and 5000 fan Connacht would be Treviso-esque at best.

The cramming of half the interpros into 14 days is annoying but I guess he who pays the piper...

The reality is that the whole Irish setup is based on a pyramid of which provincial rugby is an essential element. If the provinces aren't able to be successful on and off the field and if they aren't able to generate their own revenue to back up the IRFU funding they will lose their best players to England and France and there will definitely be no time for proper training camps then as the English / French clubs will run these players into the ground to get every last penny out of their investment. The national team is always priority number 1 in my eyes but their needs to be co-operation down the line to the provinces and the clubs or the whole setup will fail.

The IRFU can only pay a certain proportion of wages, the provinces have to make up the shortfall. For all Munster's success, looking at the attendances at league games its obvious that fans are picking and choosing which games they can afford to go to so games like these have to be sell outs to keep funding coming in. The same is true for the other provinces. We saw Leinster v Munster at the Aviva with thousands of empty seats when a few years ago it was a guaranteed sell out.

Connacht are charging good money for paying into individual games at the Sportsground which is ok once you are winning but its a high risk strategy. People aren't fools and unless respect is shown to the ordinary fan at provincial level, the IRFU will be faced with a big problem down the line.

This season has shown that its going to be even tougher for the provinces to compete at European Cup level with the money of the French and English, downgrading the league's marquee fixture is a PR disaster. I accept that the league has to take a fair degree of responsibility for that but really with all the parties looking at the fixtures its disappointing they couldn't have arranged the fixtures more suitably.

phatguerilla wrote:

The Outlaw wrote:
They have a far superior half back partnership and a lot more grunt up front. hard to see us pulling this one off

I'd say we have just about got the better back row? front five could go either way, probably theirs with home advantage.

Thats definitely our best back row combo. You could be right there. scrum half and outhalf worry me though. At least Pienaar isn't anywhere to be seen

The backs, even Cooney, aren't the issue. the only one is the 70% chance of a pen try/yellow card with young Bealham against Black, away. Different from Jones of Scarlets, home...

The Outlaw wrote:
They have a far superior half back partnership and a lot more grunt up front. hard to see us pulling this one off

I'd say we have just about got the better back row? front five could go either way, probably theirs with home advantage.

rossie wrote:

The Outlaw wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote:

ormond lad wrote:

rossie wrote: Isn't it really poor of irfu to schedule a training camp at the same time as interpros! The league already lacks credibility and this totally undermines it among its strongest market. Ffs they are charging 40 euro for a terrace ticket in TP to see a glorified B+I game. It gives credence to PRL and lnr pov that pro12 is an irrelevance.

When else would you schedule the interpros other than now?
When else would you schedule the training camp for?

There is plenty of other dates available in the calendar that the interpro matches could be refixed for. Munster v Leinster will be a big draw regardless of when it is played. It has been an October or November / March or April game the last few years. Don't really see why its a Christmas match this year.

All this degrading of interpro games never did us any real good under Declan Kidney. Munster v Leinster just has to be 2 full strength teams, while I have no doubt Joe Schmidt and his team will use the time productively, a Munster v Leinster game will tell you a lot more about where lads are at as opposed to a training camp. If they were missing a game against Dragons or Treviso or someone like that it wouldn't really matter.

The IRFU pay their wages. they call the shots I'm afraid. JS has to get to see his players too as essentially they are employed by the IRFU so he can call his Camps whenever he likes.

Reality is that if irfu continue to treat the pro12 as an inferior competition it will die. It's already struggling. The Welsh are on their knees, Italians in disarray and Edinburgh a shambles with 2 to 3k watching regularly. There is a very real threat to our game coming from LNR and PRL. Players want to play in big games in front of big crowds. Munster v Leinster used to be just that. Munster minus o Connell, foley, o mahoney, Murray and zebo is disrespectful to the paying public. Leinster no doubt are missing theirs also. Why would anyone face a two hour trip on Stephens day and pay between 30 and 50 euro to watch munster a v leinster a.
paying to go to top class rugby is like any other expense. If people no longer think it represents value they won't purchase. Once the habit is broken and the punter gets comfortable on his/her couch or high stool it's very hard to reverse.
Ormond lad- I don't know when training camp should be held but it shouldn't clash with the interpros. They are our marquee fixtures and to mess with them is insulting to fans.

The first thing is the Irish camp has always been held at Xmas. So it isn't anything new. When exactly can you have it when the provinces are in HEC action in December and January. It isn't that simple

The fixture makers knew this camp was going ahead so really is there fault for fixing games the week it was on. that's the reality.

And lastly if provinces want complete control of their players they'll have to pay their wages too. Can't have it both ways. The international game in Ireland funds the provinces so we can keep our best players here. The Pro 12 on it's own won't do that.

The Outlaw wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote:

ormond lad wrote:

rossie wrote: Isn't it really poor of irfu to schedule a training camp at the same time as interpros! The league already lacks credibility and this totally undermines it among its strongest market. Ffs they are charging 40 euro for a terrace ticket in TP to see a glorified B+I game. It gives credence to PRL and lnr pov that pro12 is an irrelevance.

When else would you schedule the interpros other than now?
When else would you schedule the training camp for?

There is plenty of other dates available in the calendar that the interpro matches could be refixed for. Munster v Leinster will be a big draw regardless of when it is played. It has been an October or November / March or April game the last few years. Don't really see why its a Christmas match this year.

All this degrading of interpro games never did us any real good under Declan Kidney. Munster v Leinster just has to be 2 full strength teams, while I have no doubt Joe Schmidt and his team will use the time productively, a Munster v Leinster game will tell you a lot more about where lads are at as opposed to a training camp. If they were missing a game against Dragons or Treviso or someone like that it wouldn't really matter.

The IRFU pay their wages. they call the shots I'm afraid. JS has to get to see his players too as essentially they are employed by the IRFU so he can call his Camps whenever he likes.

Reality is that if irfu continue to treat the pro12 as an inferior competition it will die. It's already struggling. The Welsh are on their knees, Italians in disarray and Edinburgh a shambles with 2 to 3k watching regularly. There is a very real threat to our game coming from LNR and PRL. Players want to play in big games in front of big crowds. Munster v Leinster used to be just that. Munster minus o Connell, foley, o mahoney, Murray and zebo is disrespectful to the paying public. Leinster no doubt are missing theirs also. Why would anyone face a two hour trip on Stephens day and pay between 30 and 50 euro to watch munster a v leinster a.
paying to go to top class rugby is like any other expense. If people no longer think it represents value they won't purchase. Once the habit is broken and the punter gets comfortable on his/her couch or high stool it's very hard to reverse.
Ormond lad- I don't know when training camp should be held but it shouldn't clash with the interpros. They are our marquee fixtures and to mess with them is insulting to fans.

connachta wrote: Does someone see Buckley on the bench as a sign he could well be in the Irish Camp?

You'd think he'd be in the camp, but there are any number of over-rated Leinster and Munster props to call up first.

Does someone see Buckley on the bench as a sign he could well be in the Irish Camp?

Borders no.2 wrote:

ormond lad wrote:

rossie wrote: Isn't it really poor of irfu to schedule a training camp at the same time as interpros! The league already lacks credibility and this totally undermines it among its strongest market. Ffs they are charging 40 euro for a terrace ticket in TP to see a glorified B+I game. It gives credence to PRL and lnr pov that pro12 is an irrelevance.

When else would you schedule the interpros other than now?
When else would you schedule the training camp for?

There is plenty of other dates available in the calendar that the interpro matches could be refixed for. Munster v Leinster will be a big draw regardless of when it is played. It has been an October or November / March or April game the last few years. Don't really see why its a Christmas match this year.

All this degrading of interpro games never did us any real good under Declan Kidney. Munster v Leinster just has to be 2 full strength teams, while I have no doubt Joe Schmidt and his team will use the time productively, a Munster v Leinster game will tell you a lot more about where lads are at as opposed to a training camp. If they were missing a game against Dragons or Treviso or someone like that it wouldn't really matter.

The IRFU pay their wages. they call the shots I'm afraid. JS has to get to see his players too as essentially they are employed by the IRFU so he can call his Camps whenever he likes.

Borders no.2 wrote:

connachta wrote: (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8 ): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F vd Merwe, R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, A O’Connor, S Reidy, M Heaney, I Humphreys, S Olding.

15. Darragh Leader
14. Danie Poolman
13. Bundee Aki
12. Dave McSharry
11. Matt Healy
10. Jack Carty
9. John Cooney

1. Ronan Loughney
2. Tom McCartney
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Quinn Roux
5. Aly Muldowney
6. John Muldoon (captain)
7. Willie Faloon
8. George Naoupu

Replacements:

16. Dave Heffernan
17. Denis Buckley
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Eoghan Masterson
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Craig Ronaldson
23. Mils Muliaina

Ulster close enough to full strength, with Jackson now back as well as Herbst at prop. They are missing their two talismen in Rory Best and Ruan Pienaar but they still look strong. There is no area that looks very weak. For us not sure about rotating both props but we know Rodney has only so much in the tank. Bealham did quite well when he came on against Scarlets, its another big step up here though. Glad to see Ronan Loughney get a game. Buckley should be fresh for the games in the new year.

Looking at this team and reading the Advertiser, Lam is probably targetting Munster a bit more than this one but isn't writing this one off which is good to see.

He said in the advertiser Connacht now "need to win" against Ulster. "That is the thinking, so we need to recover."

They have a far superior half back partnership and a lot more grunt up front. hard to see us pulling this one off

connachta wrote: (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8 ): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F vd Merwe, R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, A O’Connor, S Reidy, M Heaney, I Humphreys, S Olding.

15. Darragh Leader
14. Danie Poolman
13. Bundee Aki
12. Dave McSharry
11. Matt Healy
10. Jack Carty
9. John Cooney

1. Ronan Loughney
2. Tom McCartney
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Quinn Roux
5. Aly Muldowney
6. John Muldoon (captain)
7. Willie Faloon
8. George Naoupu

Replacements:

16. Dave Heffernan
17. Denis Buckley
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Eoghan Masterson
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Craig Ronaldson
23. Mils Muliaina

Ulster close enough to full strength, with Jackson now back as well as Herbst at prop. They are missing their two talismen in Rory Best and Ruan Pienaar but they still look strong. There is no area that looks very weak. For us not sure about rotating both props but we know Rodney has only so much in the tank. Bealham did quite well when he came on against Scarlets, its another big step up here though. Glad to see Ronan Loughney get a game. Buckley should be fresh for the games in the new year.

Looking at this team and reading the Advertiser, Lam is probably targetting Munster a bit more than this one but isn't writing this one off which is good to see.

He said in the advertiser Connacht now "need to win" against Ulster. "That is the thinking, so we need to recover."

(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8 ): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F vd Merwe, R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, A O’Connor, S Reidy, M Heaney, I Humphreys, S Olding.

15. Darragh Leader
14. Danie Poolman
13. Bundee Aki
12. Dave McSharry
11. Matt Healy
10. Jack Carty
9. John Cooney

1. Ronan Loughney
2. Tom McCartney
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Quinn Roux
5. Aly Muldowney
6. John Muldoon (captain)
7. Willie Faloon
8. George Naoupu

Replacements:

16. Dave Heffernan
17. Denis Buckley
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Eoghan Masterson
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Craig Ronaldson
23. Mils Muliaina