my abiding memory of NOC is staring in utter disbelief as he launched that kick to end the Gloughster (or however you spell it!) match and the "WTF" from the clan - I wish him the best up north, we have far better options now

Ulster Ravens team to play Bristol, British & Irish Cup, Sun 21st October, Memorial Stadium (kick off 3.00pm):
(15-9): Peter Nelson; Ricky Andrew, Michael Allen, Luke Marshall, Chris Cochrane; Stuart Olding, Michael Heaney;
(1-: Richard Lutton, Niall Annett, Adam Macklin, Alan O'Connor, Neil McComb (capt), Robbie Diack, Ali Birch, Roger Wilson;
Replacements (16-22): Nigel Brady, Kyle McCall, James Simpson, Conor Joyce, Blane McIlroy, Niall O’Connor,Stuart McCloskey.

That's a handy enough back row.

things have gone from bad to very worse.

Ulster Ravens team to play Bristol, British & Irish Cup, Sun 21st October, Memorial Stadium (kick off 3.00pm):
(15-9): Peter Nelson; Ricky Andrew, Michael Allen, Luke Marshall, Chris Cochrane; Stuart Olding, Michael Heaney;
(1-: Richard Lutton, Niall Annett, Adam Macklin, Alan O'Connor, Neil McComb (capt), Robbie Diack, Ali Birch, Roger Wilson;
Replacements (16-22): Nigel Brady, Kyle McCall, James Simpson, Conor Joyce, Blane McIlroy, Niall O’Connor, Stuart McCloskey.

bench for the ravens in the b+i

Why are you even discussing this?!!!!

The only fact that matters is that he was a flop here and EE got it very wrong on this and one or two other signings last season.

He would appear to have gotten his signings for this season spot on tho so he clearly learned from his mistakes in this regard.

Dan has arrived so can someone please close this thread!

Maybe your right but did we even try? I'm not a 100% sure but I think EE would/might have trained him in the Ireland Under 20's so he would have had a huge advantage to getting him to sign. Also McKinney back then was 4th choice you don't think he wouldn't have been tempted by a contract with regular senior gametime?

Fact number 1, McKinney is far too young to have played under Elwood with Ireland U-20's, he stopped as coach after the 2006-07 Grand Slam, (in which Keatley & O'Connor were the fly halves). If you checked even the most rudimentary information about the young lad you'd know he was in the U-20's under Allen Clarke and then Mike Ruddock. He hasn't played against Conancht at any level Eric was coaching at so any knowledge would have been second hand.

Hence why I said the following ''I'm not a 100% sure but I think EE would/might have trained him in the Ireland Under 20's'' or was this unclear to you?

Maybe your right but did we even try?


Fact Number 2, McKinney wasn't available to Connacht at the time we recruited O'Connor it was a year apart and he was just finished year 1 in the Ulster Academy.

So what if he'd just finished year 1 of the academy? As the saying goes if your young enough your good enough and you can't prove that McKinney wouldn't have been unavailable if offered a senior contract with us. period.

We replaced O'Connor with Parks, so are you saying you wanted McKinney over Parks?

No I'm saying I wanted McKinney over NOC.

You might be right about Garrie Law but so what? It doesn't change the fact that McKinney has the better stats or is the better player than NOC.


I never said he was or wasn't...

Fact Number 3, But what did he do in the year O'Connor was not at Ulster? While O'Connor was away he played precisely 74 minutes of rugby for Ulster over two games in which Ulster scored 27 points, and conceded 74 and a few run outs with Ulster Ravens and Queens.

Ok lets leave out the likes of Paddy Wallace and Ian Humphries for a moment he was behind a 20 year old out-half who Ulster were trying to blood as much as possible as they saw him (it turned out) as a potential number 1. Anyone who saw Jackson play in the first game in the Aviva knew that he was something special. This is another reason why McKinney might have gone he knew that a player only a year older than him was being mooted as the new big thing so his gametime that season was going to be limited.

Time will tell if he is remotely the player you seem to think he is, but lets be straight here he has moved to exactly the same level he was playing at with Ulster last year perhaps even a little lower (let's see at the end of the seaosn where Rotherham finish up shall we) because it won't be the Premiership that's for sure..)

You actually got something right here but the simple fact is he moved to a club to test himself and not sit on his laurels in a academy which I think should be applauded. Roterham have a strong history of bringing in Irish players especially Ulster players and the reason they went for him was that they were so impressed with his performance against them in a Ravens vs Roterham game. This will get him more experience in a competitive environment with a lot of pressure because of promotion as well as playing in a new environment. Roterham has also being a springboard for success for young Irish players to put themselves in the spotlight for other bigger clubs to recruit such as Copeland and Monahan. Fact.

If Niall can continue to get paid as a 4th choice outhalf at Ulster than more power to him. Obviously his trip to Connacht did not work out, though to my mind he was finally paying off some of Eric's faith in him by the time the injury ended his season. He had one of his better games in the win against Edinburgh that ended Connacht's winless streak. I'm still not convince someone higher up didn't strongly suggest that Eric take him on to see maybe once and for all if he had the makings of an International 10. The answer would seem to be no, so he was let go home.

connachtexile wrote:

Hang on a Sec first you're wrong McKinney left this Summer

Your right I got this wrong :blush:

Glad you agree... :whistle:

The rest? Pfttttttt, please.... :dry:

Regardless of how good or bad you think O'Connor was he took the chance to come west, you can be damn sure that Eric got the player we could afford at the time.

But lets get some facts straight...

Maybe your right but did we even try? I'm not a 100% sure but I think EE would/might have trained him in the Ireland Under 20's so he would have had a huge advantage to getting him to sign. Also McKinney back then was 4th choice you don't think he wouldn't have been tempted by a contract with regular senior gametime?

Fact number 1, McKinney is far too young to have played under Elwood with Ireland U-20's, he stopped as coach after the 2006-07 Grand Slam, (in which Keatley & O'Connor were the fly halves). If you checked even the most rudimentary information about the young lad you'd know he was in the U-20's under Allen Clarke and then Mike Ruddock. He hasn't played against Conancht at any level Eric was coaching at so any knowledge would have been second hand.

Maybe your right but did we even try?

Fact Number 2, McKinney wasn't available to Connacht at the time we recruited O'Connor it was a year apart and he was just finished year 1 in the Ulster Academy. We replaced O'Connor with Parks, so are you saying you wanted McKinney over Parks?

You might be right about Garrie Law but so what? It doesn't change the fact that McKinney has the better stats or is the better player than NOC.

I never said he was or wasn't...

Fact Number 3, But what did he do in the year O'Connor was not at Ulster? While O'Connor was away he played precisely 74 minutes of rugby for Ulster over two games in which Ulster scored 27 points, and conceded 74 and a few run outs with Ulster Ravens and Queens.

And remember this was under the stewardship of Brian Mclaughlin a coach with an encyclopaedic knowledge of Ulster schools players prior to taking the Ulster job in 2009, and with a Kiwi (renowned for giving youth it's head) about to come in. He still had another year left in the Academy as well when he jumped for Rotherham.

Time will tell if he is remotely the player you seem to think he is, but lets be straight here he has moved to exactly the same level he was playing at with Ulster last year perhaps even a little lower (let's see at the end of the seaosn where Rotherham finish up shall we) because it won't be the Premiership that's for sure..)

For the record, he had one of the most complete displays a 10 can have away to Glos in the Heineken, he was magnificent that day. But for most of the rest of the season he was very poor.

Eric put alot of faith in him and it backfired.

Niall was very homesick here and wanted to move back up north all along. He was never at home here. From what I heard, he would rather be 4th or 5th choice in Ulster than 1st choice in Connacht. He wanted to be close to friends and family

salmson wrote: Connacht Exile - regarding Kinney, one word: Hindsight.

Sea_Point - Much as I think Eric has done a good job, there's no winning an argument on NOC. I don't know one Connacht supporter, be they (like me) a blow-in from another sport or a more knowledgable old fart (like Galwegian, say), who thought signing him was a good idea. And he certainly lived down to low expectations.

ahhh that last play vs gloucester at home was very special. kicking the ball away when time was up.

i never seen any team react like gavin duffy and few others did towards niall that day.

whistle went and niall turned over and stared at the clan terrace. it was then it hit him what he had done.

Connacht Exile - regarding Kinney, one word: Hindsight.

Sea_Point - Much as I think Eric has done a good job, there's no winning an argument on NOC. I don't know one Connacht supporter, be they (like me) a blow-in from another sport or a more knowledgable old fart (like Galwegian, say), who thought signing him was a good idea. And he certainly lived down to low expectations.

Hang on a Sec first you're wrong McKinney left this Summer

Your right I got this wrong :blush:

so you're making a massive asssumption that Eric could have picked and chosen between the two from a point of complete misinformation.

Just like your assuming that he couldn't.

But this seems to fit with your anti Eric agenda.

Your correct about this except I don't have a anti-EE agenda Dan Brown but I will criticize the sh*t out of him or any other Connacht manager if I see that he makes a bad decision. It was obvious to all that NOC was barely AIL standard how he still has a professional contract is beyond me.

Anyway regarding McKinney the fact is even if we were interested this summer, like most young Ulster lads will look across the water way before they look South (or West for that matter). A good deal of them will have siblings or family resident in England/Scotland/Wales whether in third level education or working, and that is often the draw...

Maybe your right but did we even try? I'm not a 100% sure but I think EE would/might have trained him in the Ireland Under 20's so he would have had a huge advantage to getting him to sign. Also McKinney back then was 4th choice you don't think he wouldn't have been tempted by a contract with regular senior gametime?

Also Scot, Garrie Law is the first choice kicker at Rotherham (an captain), but he's been injured. Came back in last week against Jersey and took over kicking duties and knocked over a 24 point haul from the boot. If he stays fit McKinney will have to settle for being the first choice playmaker...

You might be right about Garrie Law but so what? It doesn't change the fact that McKinney has the better stats or is the better player than NOC.

To summarize don't go looking for conspiracies were none exist and just because I critize an asinine decision by EE doesn't mean I have an "agenda"

connachtexile wrote: What kills me is that James McKinney who also left at the same time and who I was screaming for us to sign has a 83% success rate in front of the posts for Rotherham. Kind of pathetic that EE couldn't see who was the better signing of the two when he had a choice.

Hang on a Sec first you're wrong McKinney left this Summer so you're making a massive asssumption that Eric could have picked and chosen between the two from a point of complete misinformation. But this seems to fit with your anti Eric agenda.

Anyway regarding McKinney the fact is even if we were interested this summer, like most young Ulster lads will look across the water way before they look South (or West for that matter). A good deal of them will have siblings or family resident in England/Scotland/Wales whether in third level education or working, and that is often the draw...

Also Scot, Garrie Law is the first choice kicker at Rotherham (an captain), but he's been injured. Came back in last week against Jersey and took over kicking duties and knocked over a 24 point haul from the boot. If he stays fit McKinney will have to settle for being the first choice playmaker...

What kills me is that James McKinney who also left at the same time and who I was screaming for us to sign has a 83% success rate in front of the posts for Rotherham. Kind of pathetic that EE couldn't see who was the better signing of the two when he had a choice.

the game vs munster, paddy wallace wasnt in the match day squad. it was peter nelson wearing 22 on the bench. niall o connor was fit playing for ravens!

that could even set him back to 4th choice fly half. when ruan pienaar comes back, he will play out half if jackson gets injured with marshall at scrum half, even making o connor 5th choice if he doesnt improve hughly.

imo niall o connor was a teachers pet from what i saw at a few training sessions. dont worry thats not a bad thing in sport. eric kept with him through the losing streak. i think he would of been second choice here behind parks, and noc would of started 4 games with us now

Feel sorry for him, came into a difficult situation here with a sceptical crowd and struggled but had some good moments in the 2nd half of the season. I suppose he's as high in the pecking order at Ulster as he would have been at Connacht (with everyone fit). Hopefully he can get more gametime with Ulster during international breaks. It only takes one injury and the season could open up for him. Still think at his stage now he might have been as well to give it a shot in the UK (like Steenson) or France rather than going back where he was only ever going to be a backup option but hope it works out for him.

poor old niall o connor cant get a game with ulster.
3weeks ago he played for ulster ravens (a) on the saturday with nevin spence. day before his dead.
clearly no games last week for ulster but ulster team to play cardiff this weekend has little jackson at flyhalf and paddy walace as backup flyhalf on the bench