For the benefit of argument (because that's what we do on forums!!!!), I wouldn't take a Cipriani over a Madigan.

The drink driving charge did it for me in the end with him which is sad as I am sure he is a nice fella and he is a good player. I would rate Madigan as a better player though to be honest too.

Also people who feel Madigan has yet to fulfil his potential or just hasn't 'made it', I am not sure what to think of that. I can see the logic, but in a way also, he has fulfilled his potential. He is a top European fly half with many international caps.

I am not sure I see him at times, struggling to effect complete control and domination a la a Sexton, means that he has not fulfilled his potential. That just means he is a few points off the very best game managers in the world!! Maybe only 5-6 fly halves in the world like that.

Anyway, you get the gist!

Fair enough AO, I remember him in his youth he was mercurial but he has never seemed to push on as much as madigan has (imo).

I do understand people's reservations and I don't think we should be looking to blow anywhere near the 300k per year or so that it would take to secure him but if we were to get him on 80k-100k plus sponsor donation plus irfu maybe taking him up to circa 200k-250k per year I think it could be excellent business. You say gamble but we are gambling with carty and Boschoff that they will be able to perform as a top class 10 also with probably less of a guarantee they will.

EvoGeo wrote: [
I wasn't trying to aim a personal at anyone's post in particular and apologies if that's the way it came across.

Fair comment on the Cipriani and character thing as I never for a minute thought you could be comparing ability since one is an established international and one is a one time boy wonder who never quite made it due to his lack of professionalism.

You say he wouldn't be the best or second best player in our team but I think he could very well prove to be if he settled well enough. 10 as we all know is a pivotal position in any team and if Madigan could fill his undoubted (by me any many more experienced commentators) potential I think he could become our most important player.

Re my slant on his character, I think you are reading more into my comment was actually in it. I said it was a slight reservation that he could settle into the Connacht mentality coming from the big smoke mentality and this would be a concern with most players who come to Connacht not just him.

Again apologies if you think my post was a personal attack as it was meant to be a dispassionate response to what I saw as surreal commentary on Madigans possible signing for us.

Reading back my post was more defensive than intended, so no apology needed, more the point I was trying to get across is that me saying "I don't want him at Connacht" is not me saying I think he's a crap player, it just means I don't think he's a good fit for us. At nearly 28 I think the days of "if he fulfills his potential" are gone- he should be in his prime now and at the money he would be looking for I don't think that's a gamble we should take.

The Cipriani comparison was not a slight in any way, saw him run a game like a conductor nearly 10 years ago and been a huge fan since, a lot of the noise around him seems to be that he's a good pro 99.9% of the time......then blows it all in the 0.1% by doing something ridiculous...which I also kind of like :silly: but similarly I wouldn't have him at Connacht as he's a luxury player and we're not a luxury team.

Accidentally Onside wrote:

EvoGeo wrote:

Mark Mostyn wrote:

Accidentally Onside wrote:
I hope the suggestion of animosity was towards me? Why would I have bad feelings towards someone who has never wronged me in anyway? And in your last paragraph you're the one who questions his character suggesting he wouldn't be a fit for the community ethos?!? I've never heard anyone say that madigan is anything but a model pro. My statement of his being a poor man's cipriani was purely from a playing style standpoint anything other that you inferred from that is down to you.

I also don't have a problem with Irish players going abroad, when they publicly declare they're unhappy after a few months on the bench you'd worry as he was happy to sit on the bench in Dublin for years, but you could be right about their being more going on in the background.

No one is saying madigan is not a decent player, if we could get him for free then we should definitely take him but that's not going to happen so he would be on more than Bundee money, and he's not half the player Bundee is.

All seems a bit of a moot point after ruanes comments anyway.

I wasn't trying to aim a personal at anyone's post in particular and apologies if that's the way it came across.

Fair comment on the Cipriani and character thing as I never for a minute thought you could be comparing ability since one is an established international and one is a one time boy wonder who never quite made it due to his lack of professionalism.

You say he wouldn't be the best or second best player in our team but I think he could very well prove to be if he settled well enough. 10 as we all know is a pivotal position in any team and if Madigan could fill his undoubted (by me any many more experienced commentators) potential I think he could become our most important player.

Re my slant on his character, I think you are reading more into my comment was actually in it. I said it was a slight reservation that he could settle into the Connacht mentality coming from the big smoke mentality and this would be a concern with most players who come to Connacht not just him.

Again apologies if you think my post was a personal attack as it was meant to be a dispassionate response to what I saw as surreal commentary on Madigans possible signing for us.

EvoGeo wrote:

Mark Mostyn wrote:

Accidentally Onside wrote: I think people view Madigan through rose tinted goggles- he's handsome, went to the right schools, has the swagger of a top player, and has a highlight reel to die for.

Problem is he is far more miss than hit, there's a reason that everywhere he's gone he's been an untrusted backup and him looking to turn tail after less than a year abroad really doesn't speak well of him, especially when he is willing the air club dirty laundry in public. Whilst we have some excellent players we are fundamentally a hard working honest team and bringing in a flashy poor-man's Cipriani on full-fat-Cipriani money is the exact opposite of what Connacht need next season. We have an internationally capped OH who we've yet to see in full stride and a homegrown incumbent, we do not need someone who's happy to go begging to the press not one year after he told 3 out of the 4 provinces that he was too good for them and was moving on to bigger things.

His place is at Sale or Worcester or Northampton or Bristol where he will end up on the bench, play an absolute blinder in one in 5 games that he plays, is anonymous at best in the other 4, and we'll all sit here and wonder why he hasn't pushed on to bigger and better things. But he can do that one someone else's dime.

I think we can take it that signing Madigan would mean shipping Boshoff off early. I don't know what his standing in the squad is, but how are the other players going to feel about that? How will that affect us signing SH players in future?

And he's not guaranteed by any means to be any better than Boshoff on the pitch. You mntioned his highlight reel, but what's even on it from the last few years?

I will concede that he would be a high profile signing and would attract the interest of more casual fans, and maybe if we took him we might be able to use that as a bargaining chip to get more funding/support from the IRFU.

There is a hell of a lot of animosity towards Madigan for some reason. Sure he has not been a proven 10 anywhere yet but there are mitigating circumstances for this. He has been up against some stiff competition in Sexton (no other 10 in Ireland would have got in ahead of Sexton) and Gopperth (Gopperth was top scorer two seasons running in the English top flight before he moved to Leinster and he suited O'Connor's low risk rugby tactics better than Madigan).

People are saying things like Carty is as good as him and Boschoff is an "International capped outhalf". Well Madigan has 31 caps in a competitive positions for Ireland while Boschoff has one cap off the bench in a "friendly" test match for SA. Marnitz has hardly even played Super rugby in his career never mid international rugby. He has played most of his rugby in the currie cup (SA domestic league). Carty has never had any real competition for his place, if he had grown up in Leinster he would not be playing rugby now imo.

People who say he is coming home with his tail between his legs are really taking the proverbial if you ask me. People take gambles in life, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. He is obviously unhappy over there and is competing with a kiwi for the no10 role which I doubt he was informed about when he was signing on last summer. I get the feeling there is more going on in the background than we know and likely some broken promises about Madigan's role in the team when he signed on.

To compare Madigan to Cipriani is just slanderous. Cipriani is a playboy who doesn't take his rugby seriously whereas Madigan has been nothing but professional in his approach to training and playing as far as I know.

The long and the short of it is we went for Boschoff as we needed someone who could kick goals as our other 10 can't. He is a punt as he has not played at the highest level anywhere in his career (same as Carty) and if we have the option of signing Madigan he would be far better than anything we have on the books or could ever hope to have on the books (barring bringing through a Sexton ourselves at some point in the future).

My only reservation (apart from budget of course) is personality wise will he fit in to the Connacht team/community ethos but it is a very small reservation.

I hope the suggestion of animosity was towards me? Why would I have bad feelings towards someone who has never wronged me in anyway? And in your last paragraph you're the one who questions his character suggesting he wouldn't be a fit for the community ethos?!? I've never heard anyone say that madigan is anything but a model pro. My statement of his being a poor man's cipriani was purely from a playing style standpoint anything other that you inferred from that is down to you.

I also don't have a problem with Irish players going abroad, when they publicly declare they're unhappy after a few months on the bench you'd worry as he was happy to sit on the bench in Dublin for years, but you could be right about their being more going on in the background.

No one is saying madigan is not a decent player, if we could get him for free then we should definitely take him but that's not going to happen so he would be on more than Bundee money, and he's not half the player Bundee is.

All seems a bit of a moot point after ruanes comments anyway.

Jordi Murphy is out of contract at the end of the season..

Agree entirely with EvoGeo and columoc. We should bite Madigan's hand off to get him here. Would be a wonderful signing, and could only be trumped in my mind by getting AJ back!

Full agree with EvoGeo.

It seems certain players like Madigan are dubbed as flaky or flair players for some reason, as if he just dawdles around the pitch and lives off a few highlights; I think Madigan's basics are very good; high tackle counts; rarely injured; solid place kicker, and from long distance. Always willing to try something. So what's not to like. Okay, he doesn't kick as well as Sexton etc, or pass as good as Paddy Jackson, but I'd take him in an instant. He has played at the highest levels and by all accounts trains really well.

On leaving Bordeaux, the easy thing to do was sit on the bench and suck it up on €500k a year. The harder things is to want to leave and play. So if we can get him than doesn't break the bank, let's do it.

salmson wrote:

EvoGeo wrote: There is a hell of a lot of animosity towards Madigan for some reason.

I think animosity is overstating it but I don't think we should be rolling out a red carpet.
1) he's never held down a starting 10 spot and he's pushing 28.
2) he'd cost more than Mul, more than Marmion, more than TOH, more than Dillane, more than anyone but Aki, but it's not like he'd be our second best player, or anything like.
3) he's been absolute muck every time he's played in Galway (he's hardly alone in this, granted, same applies to Eoin Reddan and he had a million caps & HECs with 2 teams) so you can understand how some people are raising eyebrows.
4) his supposed love letter to Connacht was more along the lines of "if there's no place at Leinster I suppose somewhere else in Ireland would do". There's a strong suspicion he's encouraging English suitors to up their bids.

As I put it to the lads on whatsapp earlier - we don't really rate him, we certainly can't afford him, and I'd rather not think about Zoolander rocking up to the Sportsground on a central contract because that would probably signify that Sexton's finished.

No animosity really?!!!!!!! But if you don't like the idea that's cool too.

1. He has been back up to allegedly (at times) the best 10 in the world, or at least the Northern hemisphere. Lions test player, etc. The fact if a player hasn't held down a starting spot means what? We wouldn't want Dooley, Conan, Leavy, etc, etc. It's laughable.
2. Out halves with 30 test caps tend to cost a bit. I personally feel we can't afford him, but a deal with the IRFU would make it a no brainer.
3. Not a fair marker for him. Or any potential signing. We don't make it easy for players to come here!!!
4. This is a fair point. I'd prefer he really wanted to come here, but can understand anyone wanting to go to where they played for so long. Perhaps we shouldn't read into this emotion too much as the Henshaw move east told me a lot about emotion!!!!

It's a tough one. We don't quite need him. We can't quite afford him. But if the IRFU want him home, we could do an awful lot worse.

By the way I think there is very little chance we will get him due to the financials involved.

The only way it can happen is if the IRFU back it and Madigan wants to play for Ireland in the next world cup bad enough that he will take a bit of a cut also.
If it does happen then it will be good for Jack Carty too as Madigan will be away with Ireland for long spells so he should get plenty of game time and should also pick up "learnings" as Pat would say from an experienced international player. I think Boschoff would move on if Madigan signed which would free up a valuable NIQ spot for KK to bring in an NIQ of his own choosing (budget permitting).

EvoGeo wrote: There is a hell of a lot of animosity towards Madigan for some reason.

I think animosity is overstating it but I don't think we should be rolling out a red carpet.
1) he's never held down a starting 10 spot and he's pushing 28.
2) he'd cost more than Mul, more than Marmion, more than TOH, more than Dillane, more than anyone but Aki, but it's not like he'd be our second best player, or anything like.
3) he's been absolute muck every time he's played in Galway (he's hardly alone in this, granted, same applies to Eoin Reddan and he had a million caps & HECs with 2 teams) so you can understand how some people are raising eyebrows.
4) his supposed love letter to Connacht was more along the lines of "if there's no place at Leinster I suppose somewhere else in Ireland would do". There's a strong suspicion he's encouraging English suitors to up their bids.

As I put it to the lads on whatsapp earlier - we don't really rate him, we certainly can't afford him, and I'd rather not think about Zoolander rocking up to the Sportsground on a central contract because that would probably signify that Sexton's finished.

Devils own wrote: If we can get him on a totally normal level deal then he is good player can easily slot into 12 and 15 and we could release any below par back ups to Boshoff. Having him and Boshoff in same team is easy and would give options he would be like another Ronaldson only an international level place kicker

The only thing is Boschoff's main thing is place kicking. If he is not offering this then he can be a bit of liability by all accounts as he is not the best in defence. He attacks the line well in attacking play but in defensive play he tends to drop behind the defensive line (this is all anecdotal and based on what I saw of him prior to his arrival at Connacht).

connemara man wrote: Madigan couldn't force himself ahead of Jimmy Gopperth, Jack went your to toe with him and in general play didn't get out classed hell he even played better at points.

Yeah that Gopperth lad was a right chump, he was only top scorer in the English top flight two season in a row for Newcastle before he arrived at Leintser and then he moved on from Leinster to Wasps who are fighting for the title in the Aviva premiership this season. But sure wasn't Gopperth lucky he was not competing with Marnitz and Carty as he wouldn't have got a look in at Leinster when he was there as they are light years ahead of 31 cap Madigan with their grand total of 1 cap off the bench between them.

Sorry for the Sarcasm but the arguments being put against Madigan on here are just surreal and I see some people agreeing with them?

Mark Mostyn wrote:

Accidentally Onside wrote: I think people view Madigan through rose tinted goggles- he's handsome, went to the right schools, has the swagger of a top player, and has a highlight reel to die for.

Problem is he is far more miss than hit, there's a reason that everywhere he's gone he's been an untrusted backup and him looking to turn tail after less than a year abroad really doesn't speak well of him, especially when he is willing the air club dirty laundry in public. Whilst we have some excellent players we are fundamentally a hard working honest team and bringing in a flashy poor-man's Cipriani on full-fat-Cipriani money is the exact opposite of what Connacht need next season. We have an internationally capped OH who we've yet to see in full stride and a homegrown incumbent, we do not need someone who's happy to go begging to the press not one year after he told 3 out of the 4 provinces that he was too good for them and was moving on to bigger things.

His place is at Sale or Worcester or Northampton or Bristol where he will end up on the bench, play an absolute blinder in one in 5 games that he plays, is anonymous at best in the other 4, and we'll all sit here and wonder why he hasn't pushed on to bigger and better things. But he can do that one someone else's dime.

I think we can take it that signing Madigan would mean shipping Boshoff off early. I don't know what his standing in the squad is, but how are the other players going to feel about that? How will that affect us signing SH players in future?

And he's not guaranteed by any means to be any better than Boshoff on the pitch. You mntioned his highlight reel, but what's even on it from the last few years?

I will concede that he would be a high profile signing and would attract the interest of more casual fans, and maybe if we took him we might be able to use that as a bargaining chip to get more funding/support from the IRFU.

There is a hell of a lot of animosity towards Madigan for some reason. Sure he has not been a proven 10 anywhere yet but there are mitigating circumstances for this. He has been up against some stiff competition in Sexton (no other 10 in Ireland would have got in ahead of Sexton) and Gopperth (Gopperth was top scorer two seasons running in the English top flight before he moved to Leinster and he suited O'Connor's low risk rugby tactics better than Madigan).

People are saying things like Carty is as good as him and Boschoff is an "International capped outhalf". Well Madigan has 31 caps in a competitive positions for Ireland while Boschoff has one cap off the bench in a "friendly" test match for SA. Marnitz has hardly even played Super rugby in his career never mid international rugby. He has played most of his rugby in the currie cup (SA domestic league). Carty has never had any real competition for his place, if he had grown up in Leinster he would not be playing rugby now imo.

People who say he is coming home with his tail between his legs are really taking the proverbial if you ask me. People take gambles in life, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. He is obviously unhappy over there and is competing with a kiwi for the no10 role which I doubt he was informed about when he was signing on last summer. I get the feeling there is more going on in the background than we know and likely some broken promises about Madigan's role in the team when he signed on.

To compare Madigan to Cipriani is just slanderous. Cipriani is a playboy who doesn't take his rugby seriously whereas Madigan has been nothing but professional in his approach to training and playing as far as I know.

The long and the short of it is we went for Boschoff as we needed someone who could kick goals as our other 10 can't. He is a punt as he has not played at the highest level anywhere in his career (same as Carty) and if we have the option of signing Madigan he would be far better than anything we have on the books or could ever hope to have on the books (barring bringing through a Sexton ourselves at some point in the future).

My only reservation (apart from budget of course) is personality wise will he fit in to the Connacht team/community ethos but it is a very small reservation.

don't like the talk either of him replacing Boschoff who has had to sacrifice a lot to move to the NH, give the guy a chance it's not like we need to give up NIQ spots with a couple more becoming IQ later this year, completely agree with what Accidentally Onside has said

Madigan couldn't force himself ahead of Jimmy Gopperth, Jack went your to toe with him and in general play didn't get out classed hell he even played better at points.