Match Thread - Connacht vs Ospreys 15/2/13

Borders no.2 wrote: If you are proven right about Rodney Clan Clover I'll be more than happy to eat humble pie. In fairness I have noticed improvements in his workrate around the field but still he's a weakness in the defensive line and his handling is suspect. He's a fearsome man with ball in hand running at you with a bit of momentum but Munster made that mistake with Buckley, they stuck with him for what he might offer from time to time around the field in the hope that it would compensate for his inability to scrummage.

The bottom line is that he's been here two and a half years now and there are no signs of real progress in scrummaging. I'd agree the scrums were over and back but I've yet to even a semi-consistent run of scrums in the last couple of years where he has kept the scrum relatively steady. Its not a one-man operation by any means but given the number of times our scrum has gone into consistent reverse as soon as he's come on it can't be a coincidence.

You say Loughney cannot scrum, I'd agree at the top level but in the main he's held his own at Rabo Direct / Magners Level. Also in scrummaging terms imo Hagan was miles ahead of where Rodney is now when he first came. By all accounts Rodney hasn't even held his own when given games at B&I Cup level. The management can't possibly justify giving him more gametime.

I know what your saying but I do disagree, Dan is not a scrum coach if he was we would have a few front row boys in the Irish squad. I don't think loughney holds his own in the Rabo, he held his own in a few games last season and that is it. He needs the one on one training as does Rodney and Wilko could benefit too as he has gone backwards. We see the benefits from Greg Feek and the video man , look at the big match last week, weak Irish scrum in the first half and the total opposite in the second, same at the famous H cup final against Northampton. When Cian Healy broke through at Leinster he was the same as Rodney he got help and he is now the number one loose head, same with Mike Ross but he got his help at the Quins . We are a small team and we continually sign players and the cut them loose and many of them go on to star for other teams and become top players. We had a scrum half as a coach for years and he couldn't teach Chris Keane to pass a ball into the out halfs bread basket, same with out half position , remember TIm Donnelly , Niall o Connor . Specialist coaching is needed be full time or part time and these boys will shine. But it is only my opinion , and one probably not shared by many people.

He's been given every chance by the Connacht management and on both sides of the scrum but he hasn't delivered. Maybe he could benefit from better coaching but imo almost every prop we've had Dan McFarland has got them playing at or very close to their potential.

Maybe one of the big teams could afford the luxury of keeping him on the books in the hope he delivers on his potential but we most certainly can't

Borders no.2 wrote: Heard an interview with Eric Elwood saying that he picked up a neck strain/injury and had to go off at half time. Not sure will he be available for next week. Eoin McKeown and Tiernan O'Halloran are also doubts after coming off injured last night. McKeown is the major worry I'd say which is tough for him as he's just coming back and had a fine game last night again.

What's the story with George? I'd hate to see Muldoon put in at 8 as he's starting to build up some momentum and playing him out of position would likely hurt that. Thought they might have a chance against Cardiff, but if Connacht have many missing through injury (& Henshaw at U20?) that hope will fade.

Like the best players the best coaches will go to the best teams and the teams with the bigger budgets can afford better backroom teams. It'd be great to be able to have more specialised coaches in our setup but its not really practical at this moment in time. Some players just can't execute the basics of their job no matter how hard they try and how much coaching they get.

You talk about Chris Keane, Tim Donnelly and Niall O'Connor but did Chris Keane really improve much at Leinster? Paul O'Donohoe for all his time at Leinster can still only pass off one side. I don't know where Tim Donnelly went after Connacht but don't think it was a big team anyway. By all accounts he had failed to shine at Brive before he came to Connacht and NOC has had two spells at Ulster as well as his time at Connacht and he's failed to shine. It can't all be put down to coaching. Some players just don't have it at this level.

There are guys like Shane Monahan who showed raw potential at Conancht but didn't get the gametime and he's been a success at Rotherham and subsequently at Gloucester. We saw at Connacht what a good players James Downey was but he was unfortunate with injury. His style didn't change after leaving Connacht it was just that he got an injury free run.

What has happened in England with top tier teams choosing feeder clubs in the championship is a good chance for them to try and work on some rough diamonds and I think thats why the A games and AIL are important to us moving forward.

I'd agree sometimes there is too much change for change sake at Connacht and we could show a bit more patience with some players but its hard to see a way back for Rodney. Perhaps someone will pick him up in the summer and he'll prove me wrong but I'm sceptical.

clan clover wrote: Loughney cannot scrum and never could, hence why the IRFU bought Bent. Hagan could not scrum when he came here and only the fact he got game time did he improve but he was still miles off what he could have been.

Rodney is big around the park, huge ability and IMHO lots of potential if he got some proper one on scrum coaching from the likes of Greg Feek or Reggie Corrigan and while we are it Loughney could do with some too. Rodney got up off the ground last night while injured to get in the line when he clearly could not walk just to make himself available to defend most injured players stay down and let there team mates go short handed , remember away to Ulster this season. Rodney is a potential star in the making, if he tackles you, you will know about , if he runs at you again you will know about it and unlike some of our players if you have a pop at him or a team mate you will also know about it.

TOH will go like Danny Riordan, he thinks he has got it but he is miles away yet, he plays well in the big games as he knows someone is watching other games he is just not interested. I think when Lam comes he will be lucky to get a game, he has potential but he is not trying to reach for it just like Danny didn't.

Sorry but most of what you have written is a load of s****. First off Bent was signed by Leinster and sourced by Greg Feek and the IRFU had no idea who he was when the announcement was made, so your suggestion that you repeated twice that they got Bent because of Loughney is nothing more than cheap slander.

How on earth do you think Ah You is a star in the making? Fair dues to Ah You for getting up injured last night, but for God sake he is hardly the first professional rugby player to ever do that. I still remember this ball carrying that players knew about because he was serial offender for knock ons last season. His energy last season was poor too, looked out of breath going into the scrums and the game not being old enough to be like that. Fair dues to him this year though, he cut off a lot of weight and looked a bit leaner. Unfortunatley the quality of his scrummaging has not improved IMO, but then again I have very little expertise on the dark arts that is the scrum.

He got a run of games at the start of last season but unfortunately it wasn't good enough we ended up converting a loose head prop to tight head. Loughney was our best player last year and that attitude was reflected by everyone else in the Clan when he was named player of the year. Himself and Wilko driving the Edinburgh scrum back against the head to win a penalty and draw the game was a stand out moment. Fair enough Loughney won't be a regular Irish international but his form last year definitley earned him that cap and please find me a prop who won't struggle on their international debut. It is a massive step up, but he still did okay. Loughney was more than capable of locking the scrum this year against Biarritz this year too. He had very few chances this year too but he still took it when one came along. If Rodney wants a place in this team he has to make the most of it while he is on the pitch. And last night the scrum looked steadier when Rodney left injured and Wilko came back on. Honestly I would love to be proved wrong just like it was with Fetu but it's been two and a half years and I'm still not impressed enough. Here is hoping though.

As for your opinion on TOH, would you care to back it up? A lot of people had their opinion on Tiernan at the start of the season, but the lad is playing out of position this year to accommodate Fetu. What on earth makes you think he is going to blow it like Danny did? He has shown in all his recent games since just before Christmas that he is a top quality player. The s**** about the cameras have a look at his stats versus the Scarlets where there was no TV or even radio! http://www.espnscrum.com/rabodirect-pro12-2012-13/rugby/match/167063.html 89 meters ran, a clean break, two offloads and a lineout won. Doesn't exactly stink of not wanting it does it?

Lots of intensity and a win against the champions not to be sniffed at happy out!..I was very surprised and worried by some of the substitutions at a critical time in the match which destabilized our scrum and lineout, the management could have thrown it away luckily brett had to come back on as did JHW and nathan was enforced. Faloon was excellent but Tonetti did really well also along with many others.
W streak now hopefully cardiff away will be tough, wasnt to impressed with sean henry for munster last night, granted it was for a short time but he is only 100kg aswell so its not as if he is a different bigger forward option than the excellent JHW or reynecke we certainly shouldnt have four hookers next year considering our resources.
We need to tempt a few more real quality players to blend with our academy graduates and let go a good few unfortunately it seems many of the more noteworthy possible recruits are resigning with leinster and munster. If we do i think next year could be pretty exciting by the way anyone know if mata will get a game soon havent seen much of him to make a call on how good he is.

its_phil wrote:

clan clover wrote: Loughney cannot scrum and never could, hence why the IRFU bought Bent. Hagan could not scrum when he came here and only the fact he got game time did he improve but he was still miles off what he could have been.

Rodney is big around the park, huge ability and IMHO lots of potential if he got some proper one on scrum coaching from the likes of Greg Feek or Reggie Corrigan and while we are it Loughney could do with some too. Rodney got up off the ground last night while injured to get in the line when he clearly could not walk just to make himself available to defend most injured players stay down and let there team mates go short handed , remember away to Ulster this season. Rodney is a potential star in the making, if he tackles you, you will know about , if he runs at you again you will know about it and unlike some of our players if you have a pop at him or a team mate you will also know about it.

TOH will go like Danny Riordan, he thinks he has got it but he is miles away yet, he plays well in the big games as he knows someone is watching other games he is just not interested. I think when Lam comes he will be lucky to get a game, he has potential but he is not trying to reach for it just like Danny didn't.

Sorry but most of what you have written is a load of s****. First off Bent was signed by Leinster and sourced by Greg Feek and the IRFU had no idea who he was when the announcement was made, so your suggestion that you repeated twice that they got Bent because of Loughney is nothing more than cheap slander.

How on earth do you think Ah You is a star in the making? Fair dues to Ah You for getting up injured last night, but for God sake he is hardly the first professional rugby player to ever do that. I still remember this ball carrying that players knew about because he was serial offender for knock ons last season. His energy last season was poor too, looked out of breath going into the scrums and the game not being old enough to be like that. Fair dues to him this year though, he cut off a lot of weight and looked a bit leaner. Unfortunatley the quality of his scrummaging has not improved IMO, but then again I have very little expertise on the dark arts that is the scrum.

He got a run of games at the start of last season but unfortunately it wasn't good enough we ended up converting a loose head prop to tight head. Loughney was our best player last year and that attitude was reflected by everyone else in the Clan when he was named player of the year. Himself and Wilko driving the Edinburgh scrum back against the head to win a penalty and draw the game was a stand out moment. Fair enough Loughney won't be a regular Irish international but his form last year definitley earned him that cap and please find me a prop who won't struggle on their international debut. It is a massive step up, but he still did okay. Loughney was more than capable of locking the scrum this year against Biarritz this year too. He had very few chances this year too but he still took it when one came along. If Rodney wants a place in this team he has to make the most of it while he is on the pitch. And last night the scrum looked steadier when Rodney left injured and Wilko came back on. Honestly I would love to be proved wrong just like it was with Fetu but it's been two and a half years and I'm still not impressed enough. Here is hoping though.

As for your opinion on TOH, would you care to back it up? A lot of people had their opinion on Tiernan at the start of the season, but the lad is playing out of position this year to accommodate Fetu. What on earth makes you think he is going to blow it like Danny did? He has shown in all his recent games since just before Christmas that he is a top quality player. The s**** about the cameras have a look at his stats versus the Scarlets where there was no TV or even radio! http://www.espnscrum.com/rabodirect-pro12-2012-13/rugby/match/167063.html 89 meters ran, a clean break, two offloads and a lineout won. Doesn't exactly stink of not wanting it does it?

First off Phil calm down, secondly Bent was sourced by Feek with the full knowledge and blessing of the IRFU and Kidney and Smal "if" Loughney was the star you are saying he is he would be gone by now. Marler did not struggle on his first test debut, either did Bent for the matter and I could go on and on and on. Loughney is a nice guy but he also needs scrum training, when you see Rodney come on you get worried, I do like wise when I see Loughney come on, and then I wonder which Loughney is coming on the pitch the one that occasionally holds his own or the one that gives away penalties and spends his time going backwards but he has improved and the holding his own have become more frequent but as can be seen regardless of your assertions of how good he is the management went off and bought White and when he is fit he is first choice not Loughney.

Rodney himself has to step up and this in " my opinion" is something he can do with some help whether he can get that at Connacht or if I was him I would personnally contact Peter Bracken or Reggie Corrigan and get some personnal time(like grinds).
As for TOH, I did not mention cameras and i have no idea where you got that from, again he has the potential just like Danny did, but he also needs work. Not sure whant you mean by being out of position the transition from left wing to right wing and vice versa is not hard most of it is in the head. With Poolman and Carr next year, TOH will struggle unless he pushes on, something Craig Gilroy has done and something Simon Zebo has done from last season, Gilroy was not even in the Irish traning camp and does not play first team rugby and with Morris at Leicester coming up fast. As I said it is there for him, he needs to want it.
Your talk about this been S**t and that been s**t and where ever you got TV cameras from I don't know and lastly the slander bit is just a bit childish. If you have an opinion express it but clam down, we all have opinions some get proved right others wrong.

Great Game Connacht, Great Result Good to see Duffy Back Pure Class!!

Lot of peoples analysis seems coloured by the result. We could easily have lost that 17-16 with 70 identical minutes of rugby. The game was won by limiting them to 1 kickable penalty.

Our passing was poor. Marmion's deliveries were frequently off target. And he wasn't alone. Too many guys getting balls in a standing position, or slowing to take high balls or behind balls. The try showed what can be done when people are taking ball at pace.

Creedence wrote: Lot of peoples analysis seems coloured by the result. We could easily have lost that 17-16 with 70 identical minutes of rugby. The game was won by limiting them to 1 kickable penalty.

Our passing was poor. Marmion's deliveries were frequently off target. And he wasn't alone. Too many guys getting balls in a standing position, or slowing to take high balls or behind balls. The try showed what can be done when people are taking ball at pace.

That's an overly harsh assessment of our passing I'd say. Ospreys had twice as many handling errors as we did.

Devils Own wrote:

cardiff away will be tough, wasnt to impressed with sean henry for munster last night, granted it was for a short time but he is only 100kg aswell so its not as if he is a different bigger forward option than the excellent JHW or reynecke we certainly shouldnt have four hookers next year considering our resources.

To be fair all of Munster were crap yesterday and it was pretty hard to come in and turn it around. Munster were also down to 14 men meaning one less in the line out which might have had an effect. Also maybe you missed it but Reynecke is on the way out after this year so we'll be down to three. Two if the Flavin retiring rumours are correct.

We need to tempt a few more real quality players to blend with our academy graduates and let go a good few unfortunately it seems many of the more noteworthy possible recruits are resigning with leinster and munster. If we do i think next year could be pretty exciting.

Agreed. Now if a certain Portertease would tell us who the new signing is at Second Row we'd all be happy.

by the way anyone know if mata will get a game soon haven't seen much of him to make a call on how good he is.

With McSharry playing well and Tonetti back his runs are going to be limited. You'd imagine he wasn't on huge money so maybe keep him for another season to see how he goes. It's a huge step up going from Sligo to Rabo League and better players then him have struggled in their first season.

connachtexile wrote: Devils Own wrote:



Agreed. Now if a certain Portertease would tell us who the new signing is at Second Row we'd all be happy.

I'm sworn to secrecy

But I think it will be worth the wait

To be fair all of Munster were crap yesterday and it was pretty hard to come in and turn it around. Munster were also down to 14 men meaning one less in the line out which might have had an effect. Also maybe you missed it but Reynecke is on the way out after this year so we'll be down to three. Two if the Flavin retiring rumours are correct.

oh right Didnt know Reynecke was going id prefer to keep him over flavin but if he is going aswell then ya i guess we definitely do need another hooker, david doyle of leinster young might have been good for us

Agreed. Now if a certain Portertease would tell us who the new signing is at Second Row we'd all be happy.

Haha thats all kinds of wrong come on sure port be a good sport

With McSharry playing well and Tonetti back his runs are going to be limited. You'd imagine he wasn't on huge money so maybe keep him for another season to see how he goes. It's a huge step up going from Sligo to Rabo League and better players then him have struggled in their first season.

Ya id say its a big learning curve be great if he comes good tho could be a huge asset if he can make the leap..

I think munster are in trouble their academy isnt producing the real top class graduates right now, blood in the water so to speak

i think thats a bit harsh re munsters acadamy. they are bringing players tru every year and remember they have only 8 Rugby schools in munster senior cup to pick from which is a lot less than leinster and ulster.
there seems to be an attitude problem towards the so called lesser games atm which is worrying. the agression and intensity levels are worrying in these games as is the game plan.
Penney has been a disappointment so far. He talks a great game but appears to be losing something in translation because in a lot of games the performance has been flat and are turned over far too often at the breakdown due to lack of numbers. He also appears to be a yes man for the irfu which is very worrying.

Why are ye talking bout Munster in a Connacht match thread?

I was delighted to be proven wrong about my prediction. I though Mul, Faloon, Marmion and Tonetti were the highlights. While Parks did keep the score board ticking over Ido feel the DG he missed was never on. We also kicked far too much in the last few minutes allowing them for a counter attack. We could have kept the ball and tried to run out the clock.