Lads, if anyone has a copy of the program kept, the gent who collects them on FB is looking for one. Bear that in mind!

IMO Pienaar was playing the ball not making it dead, so the ball was still alive, so when Bundee touched it down it should have been a try.

Pienaar cant have it both ways, it cant be dead if an attacker plays it and live if he wants to clear it. The TMO covered himself because there Pienaars hands were on the ball but he wasnt making it dead he was playing it.

Put it this way, there was no way that a ref would judge that Pienaars actions were that of a man making the ball dead and award a 5m scrum, it would be play on and allow him to clear it, Owens was alluding to this when he asked was he playing the ball or was there downward pressure.

The TMO made a quick call based on Pienaars hands touching the ball, Owens then opened a can of worms (correctly IMO) by asking if he was playing it or making it dead, the TMO was correct in law but not in the spirit of the game. If Bundee hadnt touched the ball at all and NO aked if the ball was made dead by Ulster I dont think that the TMO would have ruled it dead,

I've never seen a try given in those circumstances. as in where a defending hand is on top of and touching the ball when attacking hand touches ball. you are probably going to give me loads of examples now!

I'm also curious as to what you mean by tmo made a case to cover his ass?

[quote="

I'm confused? are you saying connacht deserved/ should have been awarded a try and we're screwed by the officials?[/quote]

Im saying that IMO it was a wrong decision and in the spirit of the game it was a try, the TMO made a case for disallowing the try that covered his ass, Owens suspected what was happening as in Ulster wanted to clear their lines and regarded the ball as being in play.
In this instance we were slightly screwed by the officials but overall the losing of the game was our own fault.

If Nigel Owens had blown the whistle and given Connacht a 5 metre scrum as soon as Pienaar touched the ball on the line he and the Ulster supporters would have been very upset. Ulster wanted the ball in play and because of this Bundee got downward pressure on the ball, Try. It was not really contentious but annoying. Imo Owens tried to give the tmo time to get the right decision, if there was no tmo I believe that Owens would have given the try. On the day I believe we were beaten by the more clinical side not the better side. Some of the rugby that Connacht played in the first half was as good as they played all season. The slow start in the first ten minutes and the Aki turnover inside our 22 are the only real downside in the first half. At least we're not as bad as Leinster. :evil:

Shelflife wrote: You are correct Rossie, technically correct which is always the best type of correct , technically then He handled the ball in the ruck ( prior to it touching the line) which is a pen . In the spirit of the game some leeway is given to scrum halves to get the ball into a playable position, in the same spirit Pienaar never intended to touch the ball down and in effect and in the spirit of the game he didn't.

I also don't agree that we were screwed, as you said 5 tries to 2 sums it up nicely.

I'm confused? are you saying connacht deserved/ should have been awarded a try and we're screwed by the officials?

Its been mentioned a couple of times above that we played no rugby in the 1st half. I'd disagree. Against a strong wind we had a lot of territory and carried a lot of ball. Ok we were hitting a brick wall at times in Ulster's defence and were a bit one dimensional but I doubt if anyone was unhappy with the scoreboard at 0-5 after 30 minutes. If we were level or a couple of points ahead at that stage I doubt Ulster would have many complaints.

We were however once again slow to start the game, needless scrum conceded from a fairly basic kick off put us on the back foot. First try was far too soft for my liking. 2nd try was disappointing but 0-10 wouldn't have been a disaster heading in at half time by any stretch, the 3rd try was a killer and shouldn't happen to a team at this level.

Defensively, we need to ask big questions of ourselves, Ulster made too many clean line breaks yesterday and once that happened it was inevitable they would score.

There were positives to take from about minute 10 to minute 30. However, ultimately individual errors and systems failures cost us.

For me its the basics that are costing us. Restarts have been my bugbear with Connacht forever. We simply can't get them right on key occasions and 3 tries yesterday could be traced back to restarts.

Yesterday highlighted part of the reason why we will miss Dan so much. To see Connacht drive a good Ulster pack off their own scrum on a couple of occasions was pleasing but added to the frustration of the other elements of the game.

Big D.P. wrote: I'm gutted. We got screwed by another contentious decision. Too many of these recently.

Ulster made a few nice scores., and it was a great game to watch.

We need to keep pushing and pushing but 6th may be beyond us I fear.

What contentious decision? The one where we decided to not play rugby before half time and give them a 17 point head start?

You are correct Rossie, technically correct which is always the best type of correct , technically then He handled the ball in the ruck ( prior to it touching the line) which is a pen . In the spirit of the game some leeway is given to scrum halves to get the ball into a playable position, in the same spirit Pienaar never intended to touch the ball down and in effect and in the spirit of the game he didn't.

I also don't agree that we were screwed, as you said 5 tries to 2 sums it up nicely.

I don't know. having watched it a few times pie naars hand is clearly on top of the ball first. His intention is irrelevant as it cannot be determined. Imo his hand would have to be off the ball and ball still live for a try to be given. Afaik there is no minimum level of downward pressure required. touching the top of the ball when in goal and on ground is enough to score a try and same applies defensively. If refs don't penalise scrum halves for it regularly that's ignoring the rule( and they ignore many) for continuity but that's a separate matter.
It could have been given but you can't argue that one when it's not imo.
to say connacht were screwed simply isn't true. 5 tries were conceded.

I'm gutted. We got screwed by another contentious decision. Too many of these recently.

Ulster made a few nice scores., and it was a great game to watch.

We need to keep pushing and pushing but 6th may be beyond us I fear.

It was a terrible call from the TMO, Ulster happy to take it but they would have been very upset if they were called back for a 5m scrum to Connacht after clearing their line.

Pienaar played the ball over the line in order to clear the lines, he did touch it but didnt apply downward pressure, using that analogy everytime a player picks the ball up behind the try line then its dead, therefore its impossible to play the ball from your own try line.

That said Ulster were very clinical in taking their chances,something that we have to learn.

Wasrednowgreen wrote
a) Rugby is a sport that involves playing in two halves every single match.

Apart from the first 5 and last ten minutes of the first half Connacht dominated what is a top 2/3 team.

On another note the TMO got the call wrong in the first half on Bundee Aki's touchdown Pienaar was avoiding putting downward pressure on the ball so he could clear his lines. So Bundee's touchdown should have stood.

This was a good performance against a top team and will give them confidence going forward. Sky also got it wrong Muldoon was immense and should have been Man of the Match imo.

Actually, 7th = playoff position, and potential for champions cup rugby next season. That's definitely not nowhere.

7th .... 8th = Nowhere

Wasrednowgreen wrote: Can't help but feel like this NOW has the smell of 7th place all over it and 7th place is nowhere ................. :sick:

The fact that Connacht cannot string together two halves as you mentioned this actually has the smell of 8th.

Ulster clearly deserved their bonus point win, they are the more professional side, but Connacht could have very easily stolen a win here so it is still a bitter pill to swallow.