KIDNEY OUT

it would be a page long if i hit quote button so here goes.

It goes without saying that pienaar wud be 1st choice but the fact that he occupies one of their 4 NIQ spots when they have marshall does raise questions imo. The fact that they play him at 9 rather than 10 further raises those questions. Marshall has looked very good, when selected, this season behind a very dominant pack. The irish pack currently isnt nearly as dominant. These are factors that any management would be intitled to take into consideration.

Re reddin- last season there was a clear selection policy of selecting Boss ahead of Reddin for Hec away matches with reddin getting the nod at home in the corresponding fixture. The reasons given for this(from people close to leinster but not schmidt himself afair) was better defence.

I agree with you that abandoning the churchill cup was a mistake but i dont know who pulled that.

i agree with salmson about the contract extension.

There is a pattern developing here re the Int managers job that is imo in many ways starting to mirror the english football job. Eddie o sullivan went out in a similar fashion and afair gatland too.

I agree with seapoint completely on this one

friend wants to give us a ticket for the argentina match but i not sure i should go are any of ye still going to matches with kidney at the helm?

Also i presume the term yoda is a gigantic oxymoron..more like ja ja binks

Jar Jar Binks.

I don't care if people are attacking or defending Kidney, but by Thor if you get a Star Wars reference wrong you will feel my wrath.

Devils own wrote: Also i presume the term yoda is a gigantic oxymoron..more like ja ja binks

sea_point wrote:

rossie wrote: it would be a page long if i hit quote button so here goes.

It goes without saying that pienaar wud be 1st choice but the fact that he occupies one of their 4 NIQ spots when they have marshall does raise questions imo. The fact that they play him at 9 rather than 10 further raises those questions. Marshall has looked very good, when selected, this season behind a very dominant pack. The irish pack currently isnt nearly as dominant. These are factors that any management would be intitled to take into consideration.

Re reddin- last season there was a clear selection policy of selecting Boss ahead of Reddin for Hec away matches with reddin getting the nod at home in the corresponding fixture. The reasons given for this(from people close to leinster but not schmidt himself afair) was better defence.

I agree with you that abandoning the churchill cup was a mistake but i dont know who pulled that.

i agree with salmson about the contract extension.

There is a pattern developing here re the Int managers job that is imo in many ways starting to mirror the english football job. Eddie o sullivan went out in a similar fashion and afair gatland too.

Ahhh now would you come off it now, the comparison to the England Football managers situation is pure nonsense:


Let's see..

*Kidney has been in the job for over four years and is contracted to June 2013 which will be five years in all (if the IRFU don't do another sneaky extension before then of course).

*O'Sullivan before him had the main job for Seven, and if he hadn't rightly fallen on his own sword he was contracted to 2012, eleven years in all.

Gatland was played out by the Old Farts of the IRFU who wanted an Irish born Coach, it had nothing to do with a lack of popular support that you seem to be suggesting. They wanted their man (O'Sullivan) in and when Gatland was up for contract renewal the loss to Argentina at the RWC'99 presented them with the opportunity to decline his services.

Despite Gatland having been the driving force behind the Ireland revival, Eddie had the key IRFU players ears and the IRFU had waged a PR campaign in support of Eddie. They installed him giving him a contract longer than Gatland had recieved, and providing all (and more) than Gatland had been provided and requested in terms of resources. www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-...rift-91466-20582076/

How does that marry at all with what you have insinuated..?

If as you seem to suggest people power was involved then you can be damn Kidney & O'Sullivan would have both not had the contract extensions just before their underperforming teams had kicked a ball in anger at the World Cup's...

Marshal - it's likely until Kidney is gone that he won't get a fair opportunity for an Ireland slot no matter how much or well he plays for Ulster. In a tight call Yoda always goes for a Munster player, (you can deny it but it's absolutely true even if inadvertent). But a new Ireland coach may take a different viewpoint on the relative current strengths of the provinces and shift the balance towards Ulster in those scenarios which could hopefully open up opportunities for him. I really want to see competition for the Ireland half back roles, in Marshall and now Marmion we have a couple of very capable candidates if they are given the opportunity to prove themselves.

Reddan - With regards to Boss/Reddan, since both arrived at Leinster Boss has used in games where an extra physical presence is required (usually games in UK & France). Reddan when Leinster know they can match up front and want to run their opponents ragged. They have different skill sets and Leinster rightly mix and match for the conditions. But in the clutch games, Reddan is the man..

Following on from that IMO Kidney didn't really select a side (unintentionally or no) to take on the Boks up front for 80mins, it was a mobile pack (Ross excepted)and Reddan really was the correct choice to complement that game and provide the link and quality of ball that would have got Sexton and out back line on the front foot. Murray isn't as ponderous as T O'Leary by any stretch, but he is still a couple of steps too slow when games open up...

I think the majority of people have their mind made up one way or another on Kidney. I respect him for what he has achieved but the game has moved on and left him behind. You couldn't doubt our commitment the last day but having watched the other games at the weekend we are painful to watch even compared to the likes of Argentina who if they turn up and have a full deck to chose from will beat us at the Aviva.

Harsh Realities from last Saturday
South Africa turned up the heat for 10-15 minutes in the 2nd half and won the game. Once they got ahead, one long range Sexton opportunity was the only half threat we could muster.

Heaslip isn't a captain. Silly yellow card when we were under the cosh and when he came back on I think everyone knew the game was as good as up.

In the first half South Africa were there to be bet. They looked in rag order to be honest and were down a player for 10 minutes but once again we failed to build on our superiority when the chance arose.

The other harsh reality is that this isn't a very good Irish side regardless of who the coach is.
The 'golden generation' has passed and while there is some good talent coming through, A grade quality players and leaders like O'Driscoll and O'Connell only come through once every couple of decades.

I think Rossie pointed out the lack of ball carriers up front and its a fair point with Ferris, O'Brien and O'Connell back there wasn't many to pick up the baton. Mike McCarthy fared well and made a few good carries but thats not really his game. Henry and Healy tried to pick up the baton but with the aforementioned players missing and Strauss well marshalled, we don't have the ball carrying ability in the back row that other nations have.

In addition, the last day proved once again that at the very least we need a proper backs coach. If we were there until today we wouldn't have scored a try. I watched Scotland v NZ on Sunday and even though NZ won at a canter, Scotland played some good rugby and got 3 tries and threatened another 1 or 2. Ok NZ eased off the gas a bit at times but they are a ruthless side and they won't be happy to concede as many points as they did the last day

I thought the Munster lads did quite well. Everyone seems to be bashing them but Murray wasn't bad, he still is nowhere near achieving his potential imo but it was actually Reddan strangely enough who looked more ponderous when he came on.

Ryan did fairly well after a shaky start and tried to provide some leadership in the pack.

O'Mahony provided a good lineout option. He was never going to replace Ferris but put in a solid shift.

Earls isn't a international 13 and I will never be convinced he is. Is Darren Cave injured? For me he's the man to replace O'Driscoll with Earls to replace Trimble on one wing.

Zebo did as much as was asked of him in defence which wasn't as much as everyone expected. In attack he hit the line well at times. He has promise but for me not in this 6 nations if we have everyone back.

The positives:
New Players: Mike McCarthy, Chris Henry (made a laugh of the fact he's been ignored for so long), Strauss and Zebo didn't set the world alight but got an international start which is a positive. The much talked about Michael Bent held his ground when he came on, we'll have to wait and see on his potential.

As regards the Munster players, I thought Murray did quite well but Ryan and O'Mahony gave away an awful lot of points. I'd question whether they're good enough, O'Mahony in particular.

Of course that applies to lots of the team unfortunately.

KIDNEY IN!

ummm, wrote: KIDNEY IN!

It's very hard to gauge where Ireland are at after that series. Two very limp oppositions beaten out the gate and one top team did what was needed to put us in our place. But Kidney has definitely done enough to keep the job. Unless we lose 4 in the spring he's going nowhere.

There is a lot of hype out of Saturday's result. Yes it was excellent, but as discussed above when the injured stars return what will happen:

In the backs, Will BOD and Kearney slip back into position? Zebo will disappear from the matchday 22 and unless Earls moves to the bench (to cover all back positions)to allow Gilroy to play wing (as Gilroy cant provide the necessary backs cover. But if Kidney likes Earls in his starting 15, then McFadden retains the Bench and Gilroy is in the wolfhounds, and its back to status Quo.

ummm, wrote: KIDNEY IN!