Guinness Series 2012

salmson wrote:

swift4prez wrote:
munster if locks stay here, connacht if locks go to munster.

I'm more orless in agreement with what's being said on this thread.

BUT, For the last time: Loughs is contracted until 2014, it's Wilko that's out of contract in 2013.

Oh, and one other thing - anyone else thing that of the Connacht players not selected it's McSharry rather than Loughs that has most reason to be pissed off?

if for some reason hagan and locks were moving, connacht and the irfu could agree to rip up the contract to make way for props to move around between province.
niall o connor was contracted till end of this season but both teams agreed for him to go back to ulster. were all under the IRFU, no big deal if a piece of paper is in the way.

white clearly is our tighthead lately so locks is kept on the bench, declan fitz just about ahead of him. im not pissed of at that, im pissed of at bent.

as mary hinge said above, i agree 100%. if we fall out of the top 8, well the irfu and kidney should be embarresed for the shit there doing. honestly o gara ahead of keatley.
if they lose all the games, they will deserve it

ummm, wrote: Selecting Bent immediately could just be an exercise in capping him before someone else does.

Who else is going to want him though, looks like he's miles down the pecking order back in New Zealand and I wouldn't imagine he's qualified for another country without spending 3 years there.

International Rugby really should represent the pinnacle of a players career but the likes of this is just degrading the whole thing and people wonder why some players appear to give more for their provinces than the national team.

salmson wrote:

swift4prez wrote:
munster if locks stay here, connacht if locks go to munster.

I'm more orless in agreement with what's being said on this thread.

BUT, For the last time: Loughs is contracted until 2014, it's Wilko that's out of contract in 2013.

Oh, and one other thing - anyone else thing that of the Connacht players not selected it's McSharry rather than Loughs that has most reason to be pissed off?

i do. mcsharry def worthy of a call up. tiernan can count himself very lucky and was clearly called up on last seasons form.

mary hinge- the 2nd row combination prob will be ryan and tuohy with poc on bench.

o mahoney will be in matchday squad and may start at 7. he is well worth his call up.
murray will also be in match squad and will prob start. reddin and marshall for all their attacking talent are not good defensively and tend to be benched for the big games by their provinces. this shouldnt be forgotten.

rog wont start but will be on bench and will continue to start ahead of keats in munsters big games until keats decision making reaches the required level. imo thats not far off but he needs to learn when to kick and when to run.

zebo is a class winger and deserves to be considered. he may not make match squad but desrves to be considered.

docs form has been very good this season and is there on merit.

downey and earls wud be there too but for injury.

if you are not a yoda fan fine but all the players you mention have
earned the right to be there and your rant could be construed as being anti munster.

these arent exhibition games and there are ranking points to be won.

Ive stated on this forum before that imo a cycle ended at the end of the last world cup and there should have been a change of management at that time. Yoda was offered a contract by the irfu and he accepted. We can see from our attitude towards Eos here that his optons will be limited when he does leave the irish job. He has a family to support the same as the rest of us.

I'm not anti-Munster far from it. I am anti-Yoda though. I don't think you can blame the Munster players at all if your asked to join up the Irish squad what are you going to say? No there's lad in Ulster playing better than me Deccie you should pick him instead. Of course not.

I think people are fed up that if it's a straight toss-up between a Munster player and someone else Kidney will always give the Munster player the nod.

I think O'Mahoney is good but a bit to hot headed for my liking I'd prefer Chris Henry at 7 as he seems the better spoiler.

Your loyalty to the province of your birth is commendable Rossie. No problem at all with that. I'm not anti-Munster. What I am though is fed up to the back teeth of Munster players always getting the tight calls from Kidney. Donncha O'Callaghan can consider himself a very lucky chap indeed to be even in the squad, not to mind getting in the matchday 23. He is no longer in the top 5 locks in this country. O'Mahony has potential, but is a hothead, is not a natural 7, and should not be picked before Henry. O'Gara's form this season does not warrant his inclusion in the squad. Zebo is a marginal call and I have no problem with him being in the 23, maybe not the starting 15. Murray isn't even the top 9 in Munster, so fail to see how he should start before Reddan or Marshall. I would agree with you on Downey and Earls being good enough for the match dat 23 if fit.

mary hinge wrote: Your loyalty to the province of your birth is commendable Rossie. No problem at all with that. I'm not anti-Munster. What I am though is fed up to the back teeth of Munster players always getting the tight calls from Kidney. Donncha O'Callaghan can consider himself a very lucky chap indeed to be even in the squad, not to mind getting in the matchday 23. He is no longer in the top 5 locks in this country. O'Mahony has potential, but is a hothead, is not a natural 7, and should not be picked before Henry. O'Gara's form this season does not warrant his inclusion in the squad. Zebo is a marginal call and I have no problem with him being in the 23, maybe not the starting 15. Murray isn't even the top 9 in Munster, so fail to see how he should start before Reddan or Marshall. I would agree with you on Downey and Earls being good enough for the match dat 23 if fit.

On form over the last season and first 9 games of this one the top 5 locks( in no particular order) are POC, Ryan, tuohy, Mccarthy and DOC. Docs form has been very good this season so far. He is still better than Toner and who else is there. Henderson is being used as a 6 atm and is in the squad anyway.
O Mahoney has more than potential. He has pedigree and has fire but afair rarely gets in trouble with the match officials. He brings it to the opposition which is what you want. And for the record henry is not a natural 7 but a converted 8.
Rog is there because of his boot and experience and remains ahead of Madigan and Keatley because Sexton and he are ahead of them at their provinces. I like Jackson but no more than i rate Hanrahan and their time will come.
Murray is very much the top 9 in Munster. Reddin is only the starting 9 at home for leinster. Boss is picked ahead of him for the big away fixtures. Marshall is very much no2 behind pienaar at ulster for similar reasons. The South Africa game will require a strong defensive presence at 9 and i expect Murray to start for that reason. Reddin may get the nod against Argentina and if marshall plays it will be against fiji.

swift4prez wrote:
as mary hinge said above, i agree 100%. if we fall out of the top 8, well the irfu and kidney should be embarresed for the shit there doing. honestly o gara ahead of keatley.
if they lose all the games, they will deserve it

Pretty much agree on this point but because South Africa are plagued with injuries atm and Argentina are it seems forced to play a second choice team it seems unlikely that Ireland will lose both unless we severely under-perform. Two tight victories will paper over the cracks and the Kidney train will continue to lumber forward to a potentially embarrassing six nations.

Agree with you about DOC Rossie. His form last year was not great but he's picked up this season hugely. O'Mahoney doesn't get into trouble yet but put him against some veterans and they'll go for him. Henry is a converted 8 yes but he's the best spoiler in Ireland at the moment and with Wallace gone and SOB injured he's my pick for the 7 shirt. Like Dougall and Faloon as well but need more experience.

I expect Murray to start also. Reddan does tend to have brainfarts from time to time at key stages and is better utilised off the bench to pick up the pace in certain games.

However, Murray really hasn't impressed me in the last year or so. By all accounts he showed signs of a return to form against Edinburgh but overall he has certainly gone backwards since coming on to the scene. He look assured beyond his years when he first emerged and had a decent World Cup but each time I've seen him since he seems to have regressed into a glorified Tomas O'Leary. Undoubtedly he'll be stronger in defence to the alternatives but can we afford to have such a ponderous scrum half against two hugely physical teams?

O'Callaghan probably deserves a spot in the squad. The problem people have with him being there mainly relates back to last season when he really should have been dropped altogether but was still in consistently ahead of Tuohy and McCarthy.

I'll be shocked it Ryan and Tuohy is our 2nd row partnership.

Zebo isn't international quality yet imo in terms of defence and kicking game but we have a bit of dearth of wingers at the moment so it might be no harm to try and blood him in one game. Gilroy, Zebo, O'Halloran, Conway have yet to get the experience required. I like Trimble but certainly he's not international standard winger.

i agree that murray in green hasnt set the world alight in recent times.The racing metro game apart he has been doing well for munster which makes you wonder. Obviously the ideal situation for ireland is a reddin or marshall style scrum half with the physical presence of a murray or o leary but they dont exist atm so it is what it is. Thats what makes sexton special in that he can do both and hopefully keatley evolves into that type of player. He has the skill set and physical attributes to do so whereas imo madigan doesnt(physically).
Imo murray got it all too early and he suffered a severe dose of 2nd season jitters. He is on the mend and i think he will show it this season. He ballsed up on last play v racing but came back very strongly in next game which showed maturity and charecter. a murray/marshall or even murray/marmion scrumhalf combination is irelands future imo.
you are right DOC was lucky to stay in squad last year. His confidence and form suffered more than most in mcgahans last days in charge but even then he was brilliant off bench for muster in their unbeaten pool stage of HEC. He is full of enthusiasim this season and has been appearing all over pitch while doing the usual graft.He is doing whatyou want from a veteran, making it hard for the next guy to take the jersey from him.

My reasoning for ryan and tuohy at 2nd row is two fold. POC isnt match fit yet and it wwasnt too long ago his career looked over so imo he needs to be treated carefully. i believe the way forward at international level may be as an impact sub and what an impact he would have.

In relation to O mahoney i think some people are confusing his natural agression with a him being a hot head. imo hes far from it but definately plays on the edge. he will be one of the significant players in HEC and internationsl rugby of the next 10 years. Swifty, who appears to be going through rugbys equivelant of a mid life crisis, is a hot head, o mahoney is a nuisance.
i agree that dougall and faloon are prob the most natural 7s out there atm but need experience.

Dougalls problem is that when everyones fit, and they should be for doubleheader v sarries, imo he wont make the team. The pack should be Du preez, sherry/varley, botha, POC, ryan, stander, o mahony, coughlan. Halfbacks of murray and rog/keats, backs of dougie, downey, casey, zebo and earls at fb. i truly believe that team is capable of beating anyone so they are not that far away at all.

He can be to be honest, should have been yellow carded at least once so far this season for needless aggression in the Ulster match, the penalty from which led to their first try.

back to topic, bod and rory best both ruled out of the whole series.

sea_point wrote:

rossie wrote: In relation to O mahoney i think some people are confusing his natural agression with a him being a hot head. imo hes far from it but definately plays on the edge. he will be one of the significant players in HEC and internationsl rugby of the next 10 years. <strong>Swifty</strong>, who appears to be going through rugbys equivelant of a mid life crisis, is a hot head, o mahoney is a nuisance.
i agree that dougall and faloon are prob the most natural 7s out there atm but need experience.

Swifty..??

in the interest of clarity i was referrin to the swifty of the first 9 games and not his career.

South Africa have as many injuries, more maybe, than us at the moment

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